Hi all.
Looking for some help and reassurance from the knowledge within...
Cars had an odd tinny type rattle under heavy load now for about a year. Not real loud but I can hear it, like a heat sheild rattle noise. A year sounds a long time but like most this is a fair weather toy for me so a year is less than 2000miles.
I can't find the origin of this noise no matter how hard I try, and ive spent hours over this car searching.
Anyway. Noticed the other day car felt really sluggish. Almost as if there was little to zero boost. No eml on the dash and zero codes in the ECU. Admittedly I still haven't bought myself Vagcom.
Did various things during fault finding but essentially whats confirmed it for me is I removed the boost pipes from both turbos to the intercoolers and the left turbo is blowing like a trooper but there is zero air flow from the right hand turbo. I mean nothing!! The metal boost pipe after the turbo doesn't even get warm. So I suspect seized turbo or snapped shaft.
Going back through threads on here, i think a guy called sid particularly, there were cases where the manifolds broke up, parts of said manifold entered the turbo and killed it. I suspect that's what my rattle may have been and I'm suffering similar consequences.
Before I admit defeat and pull the engine out and go down the turbo replacement route, any other reason I'd get zero flow from one turbo? And I do mean zero. Anything else to check before I commit to the dreaded....
Any questions ask away. And thanks in advance for any help and advice.
Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Yeah, that's what happened to Sid. When we put it on the Vagcom to measure the MAF readings one would go to zero as non-seized turbo blew air back up the other side.
Maybe you could get a borescope in there down the inlet to see if you can move the impeller.
I think you might be able to get the turbos off by dropping the subframe. Probably depends how seized your bolts are.
I supposed it could be some other plumbing problem causing the issue. Try logging the MAFs to see what you get.
Maybe you could get a borescope in there down the inlet to see if you can move the impeller.
I think you might be able to get the turbos off by dropping the subframe. Probably depends how seized your bolts are.
I supposed it could be some other plumbing problem causing the issue. Try logging the MAFs to see what you get.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Thanks Shop.
My diagnostics aren't good enough to read both mafs individually unfortunately. I just get the one maf reading.
I have run the car with the airbox and mafs off and very unscientifically put my hands in the inlets, the left hand bank is clearly pulling more air than the right bank and when the throttle is released there is a definite rush of air back at me from the right bank. So I would fully expect to see readings from the mafs in the same way sid reported.
Even if it was a dodgy vac line somewhere I would expect to see other issues elsewhere no? Also I'd expect to see some flow regardless even if the waste gate was jammed wide open.
Think it's time to accept fate.
Hadn't thought of getting at the turbos by just dropping the subframe. But I expect that would just be a massive pain in the arse, plus ill want the manifold off for inspection at the least. Was thinking of pulling the front of the car off and pulling the engine and gearbox out the front half a meter to get the access I want.
Also noticed on ebay only left hand manifolds available second hand, coincidence or was it common for the right hand manifold to fail, car subsequently gets broken up for parts and the left manifold is all that's left!
All guess work anyway really till I get it apart.
My diagnostics aren't good enough to read both mafs individually unfortunately. I just get the one maf reading.
I have run the car with the airbox and mafs off and very unscientifically put my hands in the inlets, the left hand bank is clearly pulling more air than the right bank and when the throttle is released there is a definite rush of air back at me from the right bank. So I would fully expect to see readings from the mafs in the same way sid reported.
Even if it was a dodgy vac line somewhere I would expect to see other issues elsewhere no? Also I'd expect to see some flow regardless even if the waste gate was jammed wide open.
Think it's time to accept fate.
Hadn't thought of getting at the turbos by just dropping the subframe. But I expect that would just be a massive pain in the arse, plus ill want the manifold off for inspection at the least. Was thinking of pulling the front of the car off and pulling the engine and gearbox out the front half a meter to get the access I want.
Also noticed on ebay only left hand manifolds available second hand, coincidence or was it common for the right hand manifold to fail, car subsequently gets broken up for parts and the left manifold is all that's left!
All guess work anyway really till I get it apart.
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Diagnosis was correct. I suffered the same fate as Sid all them years ago.
Engine now out, manifold and turbo off. Manifold has broken up and is rattling away. So that was my rattle all along! Picture shows it. The missing part off the tube inside the manifold in the picture was found in the turbo and had stalled the turbo. Wouldnt spin forward but would spin backwards then the small part of manifold fell out of the turbo inlet and now the turbo feels fine.
Now to hunter gather for parts!
Engine now out, manifold and turbo off. Manifold has broken up and is rattling away. So that was my rattle all along! Picture shows it. The missing part off the tube inside the manifold in the picture was found in the turbo and had stalled the turbo. Wouldnt spin forward but would spin backwards then the small part of manifold fell out of the turbo inlet and now the turbo feels fine.
Now to hunter gather for parts!
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Wow, is that how the factory manifold is made, not a great design to potentially allow bits to fall off and through the turbo.
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
You keeping the turbos?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
No not a great design! Im not the first either apparently. It's also playing on my mind having to fit a second hand manifold with no guarantees it won't happen again in 1000miles.
Turbos were good before the incident, no oil consumption, next to zero oil in the intercoolers ever and zero smoke. Now the piece of metal is out it looks and feels fine. If it wasn't such a ballache to get to the turbos and need engine and box removal I'd be inclined to refit it and see but I'd be an idiot in this case. Turbos will be sent off for stripping and checking and go from there on their recommendations.
I'll do a few other jobs "while the engines out" then put it back together and try to forget the pain haha.
Turbos were good before the incident, no oil consumption, next to zero oil in the intercoolers ever and zero smoke. Now the piece of metal is out it looks and feels fine. If it wasn't such a ballache to get to the turbos and need engine and box removal I'd be inclined to refit it and see but I'd be an idiot in this case. Turbos will be sent off for stripping and checking and go from there on their recommendations.
I'll do a few other jobs "while the engines out" then put it back together and try to forget the pain haha.
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Seems like a good plan.
The manifold break up is still pretty rare. Think you were unlucky.
The manifold break up is still pretty rare. Think you were unlucky.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
I do hope so!
Suspiciously there are only left hand manifolds for sale on ebay.... maybe it was common to the right hand side only and that's the point owners give up and the cars go to breakers.
All speculation of course.
Steve Green had one a couple of weeks ago when I first enquired. Hopefully he still has it, he's getting in touch Monday.
He said he had never seen or heard of the issue. But said he is surprised daily by these cars!
Suspiciously there are only left hand manifolds for sale on ebay.... maybe it was common to the right hand side only and that's the point owners give up and the cars go to breakers.
All speculation of course.
Steve Green had one a couple of weeks ago when I first enquired. Hopefully he still has it, he's getting in touch Monday.
He said he had never seen or heard of the issue. But said he is surprised daily by these cars!
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Are there any aftermarket replacement manifolds around?
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Maybe the manifold from the mental manual that's being broken is available. Doubt it's cheap though.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Them manifolds your talking about came up for sale the day after my issue arose. And I though..... result! Cos I have always liked the tubular manifolds!
I messaged him the same night they came up for sale, but he is selling them with the full turbo kit. They wont work with the standard turbos unfortunately. Its all bespoke. They are also cracked in places I believe.
No offence to anyone involved but I wouldn't want that turbo kit on my car! As impressive as the numbers it produced were, it looks a mess.
I messaged him the same night they came up for sale, but he is selling them with the full turbo kit. They wont work with the standard turbos unfortunately. Its all bespoke. They are also cracked in places I believe.
No offence to anyone involved but I wouldn't want that turbo kit on my car! As impressive as the numbers it produced were, it looks a mess.
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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111marc111
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Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
That's for the link.
They look great but it comes down to money really. RS life is already expensive enough at times.
Another worry is its quite common for tubular manifolds to crack due to the heat stresses etc. Yes they don't tend to send metal into your turbo but a blowing exhaust manifold would be irritating. Especially as its the same amount of work to get a damaged manifold out for repair!
Least I'll get to fit Steve's bufkin pipe I bought just incase i ever pull the engine out and was hoping I'd never need!!!
Only bought it two weeks ago. Probably jinxed it!
They look great but it comes down to money really. RS life is already expensive enough at times.
Another worry is its quite common for tubular manifolds to crack due to the heat stresses etc. Yes they don't tend to send metal into your turbo but a blowing exhaust manifold would be irritating. Especially as its the same amount of work to get a damaged manifold out for repair!
Least I'll get to fit Steve's bufkin pipe I bought just incase i ever pull the engine out and was hoping I'd never need!!!
Only bought it two weeks ago. Probably jinxed it!
Re: Suspect dead right hand turbo.
There are quite a few manifold pairs on ebay USA. You might find someone that'll send to the UK. Or go via a forwarding company.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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