RS6 on track - brake wear is really tough (pics)

[rs666]

So have taken the 6 on track 3 times and the summary is....

Great fun, bit not its natural environment...shocker!

Seriously the shear weight of the thing handicaps it. The understeer is substantial. Try lifting the bonnet then stand exactly square with the centre cap of a front wheel....you'll see how far forward the engine is. Not a single inch of that huge, heavy muther is behind the center point of the axle. Its like a 911 in reverse! Amazing it handles so well given this setup. JR and Simple1 did this at Combe, they will testify how far forward the engine is.

Anyway, the biggest issue is the ability of the brake setup.

I have done Castle Combe twice and Donington once in the 6 and have done two sets of pads.

At the last day at Combe the last session I did was about 8/10ths (more than my previous limits). I had some great instruction from Colin (profile Instructer) really made a difference. But putting a near 2 tonne car at 140mph into Avon then braking to 45-50mph before Quarry is unrealistic given the brakes get about another minute track usage before repeating this corner.

So I actually was easier on brakes than in the past as I had climbed the learning curve and got over the novice go fast as I can, brake as late and as hard as I can, and with Colin's help learnt to carry speed into corners, wait until the car car geometry/dynamics were ready before giving it some V8 wallop

But still I crucified a set of pads....

These pads were only 3k miles old when the track day commenced.....

Every one of them is cracked down the centre. And about 3/4 depth taken out of them.

On the day after the last session I thought I had disintegrated the pads and scored the discs....however...

After a visit to Auto Performance Services on Monday (they prepped the car for the trackday) it transpires I have fecked the pads, but not the discs.

Nathan is the Workshop Manager there. I have the utmost respect for him, so much experience and knowledge. He took one look at my brakes and told me the discs were fine (phew that saved me £600).

Basically the pads had got to such a temp that deposits had 'molten' and then been distributed on the discs. When the deposits cooled they'd solidified and gave the appearance of ridges in the discs. Leaving me with the impression the discs were grooved and needed skimming or replacing. Thankfully my impression was incorrect and the new pads removed the deposits and all is well.

But the bottom line is the RS6 is a significant piece of kit to take on track and the consumables make it a VERY expensive day out.

Tyres are another issue. I have Demon Tweeks costing a set of wheels and Toyos at approx £1k, but they reckon I'd only get 3 trackdays from the set of rubbers.

So time to get a track car. I am going to follow simple1's route and get an Exige

In the meantime, no more trackdays in the 6. But I will be doing the 'ring in May if anyone is up for that

APS ( www.autops.co.uk ) have sourced me a set of pre-market pads for testing. If these prove fit-for-purpose they will be released for retail purchase and will be significanlty cheaper than the OEM (Pagid) pads. I will keep you posted

FWIW pics of discs and pads.....check out the the grooved appearance and the wear levels...these pads were as good as new at the beginning of the day

[MK4ASH]

Er they've got a tad hot havnt they! At least we know your not driving it like a girl.

Enviromentally un-friendly and definately not pocket friendly but epic fun.........

[Nige_RS4]

Damon, apart from OEM & APS, what are the options for pads for the RS6?

Nige.

[TarmacTerrorist]

rs6 brake set-up and a race track do not mix regardless of what pad combo you have in!!


Only solution is to buy better brakes...

Dave P had a set of fully reconditioned Movit 6 pots with brand new discs for sale not long ago.... Dont spend money twice is what Im saying!!!

[TarmacTerrorist]

p.s I actually consider big grooves on the discs from the pads a good thing!!!

The metal sintered race pads I have for my Movits really seem to gouge chunks out of the discs and to look at them afterwards they are almost like a ridge and furrow feild.

My theory suggests that that is much more surface area for the pads to bite against with a rough disc rather thatn a smooth surafce. a wiggly line is much longer than a straught line to the same point.

[rs666]

Damon, apart from OEM & APS, what are the options for pads for the RS6?

Nige.

EBC are now selling Reds for the RS6 www.brakes4u.co.uk

And ECS in the states are selling a higher rated Pagid (the OEM pads are Pagid)

[Nige_RS4]

But the RS6 has brembo 8 pots on, so why downgrade to 6 pot brembos? True the discs might not be floating units like the movits, but from what damon had said, don't appear to have warped, therefore it's logical that harder pads might be enough. I'd be interestedto hear if there are any grooved discs available for the RS6.

[TarmacTerrorist]

Nige, although they are 8 pots the actual pistons are quite small and they have a 'twin' pad design which is pants (4 pads per caliper). The smaller pad heats up to quickly, and coupled with audi's stupid 'semi floating' design for the discs (they sit out on pins from the central hub) any excessive heat bulid up goes staight back into the pads and fluid rather than being conducted away into the alloy wheels via a solid ally bell.

2.5 yrs ago at the RSDC in hockenheim, Mr Frank Beila (audi lemans driver) refused to take the rs6 out anymore for hotlaps due to the brakes packing in after just a few laps...

anyone who has changed from the rs4 twin pots or the rs6 twin pad, 8 pots will tell you the difference is chalk and cheese.

[DuncS3]

Damon, I think you are being sensible getting a track car - its defenitely good to try the RS on track, so you can push it far more than you could on the road, but at teh end of day its not a track car and its not worth spending a fortune trying to make it into one (imo)

Dunc

[TarmacTerrorist]

This debate comes up often and the answer is always the same.

If your going to track your audi regualrly then the first mod above everything else is the brakes, amazing how many people leave it until very last......

[Nige_RS4]

Nige, although they are 8 pots the actual pistons are quite small and they have a 'twin' pad design which is pants (4 pads per caliper). The smaller pad heats up to quickly, and coupled with audi's stupid 'semi floating' design for the discs (they sit out on pins from the central hub) any excessive heat bulid up goes staight back into the pads and fluid rather than being conducted away into the alloy wheels via a solid ally bell.

That's quite interesting to read this, as I was considering RS6 calipers for the RS4 - I'm put off Movits by the number of problems I've heard with the cast holes in the discs and AP are too fecking expensive for my needs.

[TarmacTerrorist]

My advise would be to spec the original design Movit 4 pots which are actually made by brembo along with the 380x32mm discs which are also manufactured by brembo.

All that Movit do is basically machine a bit here and there to make them fit the car and aslo make the bells and brackets to mount them... I've had no troubles with mine what so ever and they have certainly been used for what they were intended for

I'm fully aware of the problems with the current offerings from them with theer 6 pot billet (made by them I might add)....You only have to look at them behind the 18" rim and they look very squashed in. Perhaps a 19" rim would suit them better and overcome some of the problems they are getting. The old 6 pot set-up they used to offer was a brembo caliper with the 380 disc again but could only be used with 19 or the 18" winter wheel.

[Wolverine]

Exige is almost the perfect track car! I have driven a fair few cars around the track, including the new BMW M5, Lamborghini Gallardo, 996 GT3 etc .... but few have been as fun as the Exige. Its so lightweight it can spend all day around the track without missing a beat. I did 50 laps of Donnighton once and the car had hardly used any rubber, and the discs/pads lasted another 5 track days. Its almost race-like in character. The only thing is I wish it had more power .... on the big circuits it just doesnt have the top end power to compete with the very big boyz. I would also consider an Ariel Atom VTEC supercharged and Noble, and of course, Caterham R400.

[mbedford]

Uprated pagid pads can be sourced in the uk from GPR on 08701 600 950.
They are also an authorized brembo dealer, the calipers on the rs6 are the same as the brembo 20.8356.10/20 but with the mounting lugs cast on and in brembos' own words...."This 8 piston monobloc caliper offers the ultimate in road car braking. Each caliper houses 4 pads giving less taper and 4 leading edges for maximum bite and braking."
These calipers are offered by brembo in their top of the range brake conversion kits for the 996 turbo, e46M3 and Dodge Viper R10 GTS to name but a few, and I believe were originally developed for use on the Ferrari F50.

So to suggest the calipers are pants is absolute bullshit. You just need to use the right pads and fluid for the conditions.

Ps...I'd love an exige, and if you're power hungry you can always get it converted to use the 1.8T VAG engine, bit of tuning, 400BHP, under 800kg....nice!

[rs666]

Pics again as my fotki subscription lapsed