slagging of new S4 in this weeks Autocar test

[jeffw]

A friend of mine who has a 4 month old M3 with the SMG gearbox has tried to return the car to BMW because of the way the car lurches when driven up hill (something to do woth the SMG system). Apparently BMW have refused to take the car back on the basis that all the M3 SMGs do this so it isn't a fault with his car specifically and he (my friend) should have realised that during his test drive.

He is currently considering legal action......

[Dippy]

From what I hear he won't have to wait long before the engine blows up anyway!

[Gareth]

If you're not used to the SMG system and don't drive it properly it can be-like any semi auto- very jerky and not as smooth as you would want. I've driven several SMG II cars and I have numerous friends over at www.bm3w.co.uk who have SMG II M3's and they haven't had any problems at all...

Personally I would never accept the "they all do that..." sir story. Tell your friend to have a look at the bm3w site for more info and assistance.

Gareth.

[B5DOM]

I had one of the E36 M3 SMG boxes and it was in the dealership for about a month having over 10k of electronic management bits replaced to do with the SMG Box, not an issue with a BMW warranty if only the same could be said for the Audi warranty.

IMO the SMG was a great box if driven hard however trying to drive slowly made the car jerky.

In the latest Autocar BMW are releasing some new cars, hinted at an M3 4 door and Estate now that could make interesting propositions

However BMW need to slow down the production line a bit and make them a little more rare

[Dippy]

In the latest Autocar BMW are releasing some new cars, hinted at an M3 4 door and Estate now that could make interesting propositions

Now that would be a turn-up for the books. However I'd expect that an M3 Estate would still not compete with Audi's S4 Avant in my eyes, because it is a new formula. BMW would need a next generation M3 to get it right.

[Gareth]

I had one of the E36 M3 SMG boxes and it was in the dealership for about a month having over 10k of electronic management bits replaced to do with the SMG Box, not an issue with a BMW warranty if only the same could be said for the Audi warranty.

IMO the SMG was a great box if driven hard however trying to drive slowly made the car jerky.

In the latest Autocar BMW are releasing some new cars, hinted at an M3 4 door and Estate now that could make interesting propositions

However BMW need to slow down the production line a bit and make them a little more rare

The e36 SMG I system is completely different to the E46 SMG II system. To compare the 2 is like comapring Mary Archer to Jordan... [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img]

[g7jhp]

I used to drive an Audi S3, which I bought mostly for the image over the BMW 330Ci Sport. You could argue one is a hatchback and one is a coupe but they were two options which were vying for my £'s.

I'm currently driving a Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera plus Caterham 7, but am now considering selling both and getting one car.

The main choices seem tobe M3 Coupe (standard or CSL) and M3 Cabriolet or Porsche Boxster S or fast Audi. I'd like the new RS4 but I don't like buying new, there's no RS3 in sight yet so that leaves me with the S4 or second hand old RS4 or RS6.

Anyone who says the S4 is not an M3 competitor doesn't understand marketing. The S4 and M3 are both upmarket performance family cars which may or may not suit all but definately compete head to head.

I'd love an RS3 or RS4 but think I'll end up with the M3 as it still appears to be the real performance bargin!

[Merlot]

Take a look at 03 reg B6, S4's. You'll get one for £27k if you shop around. M3's and Boxster S's are great in the summer but much slower than S4's in the winter.

[cpufreak]

Well I was hoping that we were all open minded car enthusiasts and not just blindly following a particular brand. Perhaps I was wrong...

I don't think anyone is just blindly following a particular brand, but a sense of loyalty to ones brand is understandable.

My understanding of the situation, and what I think others were trying to say is, whilst on paper performance figures are pretty similar, and as such there is some overlap in the market place, they're aiming at different people.

BMW with the M3 comprimised practicality in order to produce the best car to drive they could.

Audi with the S4 focus on producing a genuine allrounder, which is fast, yet relaxing when you don't want to push on, and especially in avant form is a fantastic family car.

So whilst you may get the same people test driving both models, the USP of each is different, and as such the demographics of owners is likely to be different.

[Mike_K]

this thread's been brought alive again after 6 months !

I, too, disagree that the M3 and S4 are targetted at the SAME market. Each has its own market range, and there is an overlap. So some people would consider both cars, some would only consider the M3 and some would only consider the S4.

When I bought about a year ago, I needed a car with "baby practicality", that was fast on mainly M- and A- roads, and had 4 wheel drive for going up and down alpine mountains on ski trips without the back-end power-fishtailing off the sides ! So for me the M3 was never in my list (although I did test drive an M5 which was wonderful, until I thought about the snow-driving and then got scared about the potential engine problems...)

I'm now hooked on 4 WD. Next time around I'll look at the latest RS4 (hopefully 2nd hand by then), or something like a 4wd BMW 330 or big 3 series diesel.

So I guess I've given away that I'm not a "racer" like most people here but still love my S4 for all the reasons that were right for me !

mike

[flossymeister]

An S4 is a car that can be driven FAST in the REAL world EVERY day in Britain by almost ANYONE, even those without much experience of a car with over 120bhp, say. M3s are not. My mum could easily drive an S4 on mountain roads. I would never let her near an M3 up there! The number you see written off, bent round lamp-posts, dead drivers of etc is a testament to this. M3s are fantastic cars, but they will bite you faster if you overstep the mark. Admittedly, they tell you fdar more about where the "mark" is, but if you don't know what to do with that information then you're jiggered anyway. S4s are therefore more practical and safer, with inherently bigger margins for error, whilst the M3 is the better pure driving machine in the hands of the RIGHT driver. I think it all depends on what you want and the order of importance you put things like speed and practicality, and how much faith you have in your abilities at or near the limit. Either car is surely fantastic!

For me, personally, 4WD makes me more secure - but that does not apply to many other people. Comparing the two cars is quite difficult as they have slightly different emphases. However, the comparisons are inevitable..... and may push both companies into improving their respective cars further! For instance - i can't wait to see what BMW does in response to the new RS4! should be fireworks!!