More S4 questions

[ammwhite]

I suppose, if it's a natural progression from scooby to S4, the big question is what comes next? [img]images/graemlins/rs4-button.jpg[/img] perhaps?

[wazza]

Ah yes! The [img]images/graemlins/rs4-button.jpg[/img] upgrade [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

[Joules]

It maybe a little unfair to only quote figures based on UK scoobies as these are very poor examples of the mark. There are a huge number of STiV and modified versions which are domestics motors from Japan. UK versions (generally) got de-tuned engines, no rear wash wiper, poor seats and interior, no climate, no ventilated rear disks, no up rated diffs, altered gearing. Some of this is being resolved with the new UK STi. But the traits still exists…Subaru take off some performance enhancement from Japan and sell them back as the Prodrive Performance Pack. Import STi7’s have 312 BHP to start with!!

Anything import after 97 will be running 280BHP on SUL whether WRX or STi. The typical reliable tuning mods take it to 300 BHP (Of course there is much more for more money).

Regards the new Impreza UK STi7 PPP which my brother owns let me tell you a modified S4 in a straight line might hang on The latter scooby is 12.2 0-100.

With regards handling I may be speaking out of turn because I have not experienced the coil over kit on an S4 but the handling on my brother’s car is exceptional. I can see little chance of an S4 ever getting close wet or dry on UK open roads. My STiV was also superb in the handling department.

BUT .. lets not get confused here. The Scooby (NOT UK stripped and detuned for our market) was bred on the rally circuit and is in effect a rally car on the road. The associated luxuries refinement and perceived user qualities absent. So in summary it is hard to compare the cars from a performance point of view.

I find the S4 a more complete package, but I accept that the cars were designed with different objectives in mind. If you want an S4 to handle like a well sorted STi dream on.

Joules

[johneroberts]

Ah yes! The [img]images/graemlins/rs4-button.jpg[/img] upgrade [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/bowdown.gif[/img]

You know you want it [img]images/graemlins/biggrin3.gif[/img]
[img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img]
Jr

[ammwhite]

Good points Joules.

Should also point out the difference in cost between the 2 cars. I bought my MY00 Impreza Turbo as an EU import from Holland - under £15K brand new [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
I've just bought a 3 year old S4 for just over £20K, which probably cost around £40K when it was new [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

So, it's a bit of an unfair comparison!

For the price I paid for my 2nd hand S4 I could have bought a brand new MY03 WRX with PPP (265bhp) from a UK dealer, which I'm sure would out perform my S4, but I was looking for something a bit more upmarket and understated - have you seen the size of the bonnet scoop on the new Imprezas [img]images/graemlins/jawdrop.gif[/img], and I'm still not convinved by the new "blobeye" front end.

cheers,
Andy

[Dippy]

Well I disagree. The Sti's and imported WRXs are tuned cars - remember that the standard wagon in Japan was pretty much the same as the UK cars. The UK car is only detuned to meet the lower octane fuel. Therefore comparing the 215bhp Impreza to the 265bhp S4 is fair on technical grounds, if not price.

Yes I do consider an S4 with coil-overs a match for the best Imprezas, but only for an average driver. As pointed out, the Impreza is based on a rally car, so with an expert driver it would certainly out-handle an S4 driven by an expert. However for an average driver, pushing the S4 to the limit result in the ESP kicking in. But an average driver pushing an Impreza to the limit would likely result in one less average driver on our roads. [img]images/graemlins/033102scull_1_prv.gif[/img]

However certainly the Impreza is excellent value for money (except for certain of IM's cars such as the UK300). Personally I do like the MY03 styling, however I won't go back to the Impreza unless they put the price up by £5K by putting in a decent interior!

[Joules]

Well I disagree. The Sti's and imported WRXs are tuned cars - remember that the standard wagon in Japan was pretty much the same as the UK cars.

By STD in Japan I am referring to WRX and STi. Both of which miles apart from the UK. I am not sure that the detuning is just about meeting the lower octane rating here. They simply want to screw us for every penny else explain why my list of extras is also absent??

I have lived in Japan for 6 months and hence know just how badly we get ripped off.

But some good points made all round ... the price alone and especially the bonnet scoop mean these cars should not be compared [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

Joules

[Dippy]

OK Joules, there's no point taking our discussion much further, I was just trying to point out that if you are going to compare two cars then you should do so on the 'base' models. The S4 was a production car, coming off the standard lines in Ingolstadt. The equivalent for Subaru is the 'Euro' WRX. You know that the STi is so-called because it uses engine parts from Subaru's tuning division rather than the cheap parts used in the standard engine. So apart from cost, any STi ought to be compared with the RS4 instead of the S4!

The STi cars may be common in Japan, but only 'cos they're so cheap! They still are a limited production tuned model.

I agree with everything else you say, especially about specs and price. I imported my S4 (£33K new, when it would have cost £42 new from a UK dealer), and have a couple of items on it which were never available on UK models.

My final point, which I'm sure you and others would agree with (otherwise you wouldn't be here), is that my comparison is never on simple performance alone. Sure, if you compare a PPP STi7 to my S4, I have no doubt that it would beat me on the drag strip, and out-handle me on the corners (I am an average driver [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]). However I compare the WHOLE car-ownership experience. So when I include comfort, practicality (I need a 5-door estate, so a 2-door saloon is pretty useless to me - like BMW, Subaru always fail to produce performance wagons), driving flexibility (I'm sure even the PPP STi still suffers from major turbo lag), and of course quality, then even for the extra money, the S4 wins for me.

[Joules]

Dave, yep lets wind this up...I think the points have been made. I should say though that the NEW STi7 UK with PPP is a good motor if you want a road going go-cart. The quality is better (no rattles!!!!!!) and there is very little lag on 2 cars that I have driven. I am kind of lucky because if I want a blast I borrow my Bros.... but believe me I am happy to hand it back [img]images/graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]