Is Revo any good?

[tartan_rob]

Most reputable garages would not re-map any car of any sort unless they were confident that the car would take it. As an example....I went to Dialynx last week and asked about KO4's and motec in order to get serious power out of the car, he told me he would not do it until the engine was already finished as it may prematurely finish the bottom end off...not that I have problems now but he felt that any more stress on the car that has 120k miles would not be good for either him or me.....even though there was approx £10k in it for him...you need to goto someone you can trust (or someone recommended to you).

[bakerdcb]

.....even though there was approx £10k in it for him...you need to goto someone you can trust (or someone recommended to you).

Totally agree. Keith spent ages checking out my old S3 before he 'Revo'd' it and did indeed find a few minor problems I was unaware of. Having sorted those the work was done and the car is still going strong 4 years on. I have also witnessed him on more than 1 occasion talking people out of spending money on their cars because of reliability concerns and unrealistic expectations. Find a specialist who is a genuine enthusiast and for whom it isn't just all about the money. They do exist, but they're rare.

[jonno1]

Keith also ran VAGCOM on my car before and after installing the REVO and it came back with no error codes. He also removed all four wheels and cleaned the ABS sensors (as the car was juddering a bit at low speed braking) for free. I had to travel to Swindon from London but was worth it.

[Nige_RS4]

Keith also ran VAGCOM on my car before and after installing the REVO and it came back with no error codes.

This doesn't really count as "a thorough check" - we can all read for error codes with VAG-COM. What is needed as a bare minimum is a boost leak test, both BPVs checked and the MAF verified as being OK. It is very common for any of these to fail and not to give error codes.

[Dippy]

I just want to make a small point. My comment was never intended to suggest that franchises such as Dialynx will remap without checking the car first.

Indeed that's what I mean - if you want ANY remap done, go to a reputable tuner.

When REVO first started after the exodus from APR Europe, there were plenty of cases of remapping done in car parks during 'club' meets.

Rob, so based on your conversation with Keith, what's the sort of mileage he would start to be doubtful about a turbo upgrade. 120K or less than that?

[jonno1]

Agreed - AMD had done boost leak check and replaced MAF before Revo installed by Keith and DVs were swapped for Forge ones.

[audiboy]

Motec isnt needed at all on these cars to "gain" power. Motronic is far more intelligent than that.

[BRETTCOLLINS]

MRC TUNING everytime. they are more interested in YOU and your CAR, not just your MONEY...........

[tartan_rob]

Dippy - I'm not sure what mileage he would look at, but he just said that 120k mile is a lot (even though no current issues or smoking etc) and to go now and overstress etc may do damage....he knows I tow a boat around a lot and therefore tha car works hard for her living. What he was saying (and I trust him unconditionally) is that to ensure ultimate reliability, do a short engine as well before increasing BHP daft (K04's would have to be next anyway to get much above 320 comfortably). The con rods are the weak links on these engines and will not last much above 450bhp on average. So to squeeze more than that, really the best option is short engine + uprated conrods (+ other bits).....

RE Motronic, it is excellent yes. But remember it has been produced for mass production cars. It is by and large a bolt on system. Motec is a race tuned system and has to therefore be individually configured for your car. An off the shelf Motec box will not work, it must be dialled into your car. As such and assuming the tuner knows what they are doing it will be tailored to your car and you can add/remove as many sensors as you wish....at the end of the day they both do exactly the same thing. One has to be programmed from new the other has default settings already in place...but that is just my little opinion...

[S2tuner]

You are almost right but not quite. To some people, Motronic is just like any other free-programmable system and anything can be done with it. The only difference is that Motronic still has knock sensors (which cannot be disabled unless one is really cheeky) and those knock sensors will protect your engine from blowing up if you end up buying craptane fuel instead of Optimax/your favorite juice here.

The other major difference between motronic and MoTec or whatever other system, is that Bosch GmbH and all the car manufacturers that use Motronic have spent at least £ 150,000,000,000.00 in the last 18 years developing simply the best engine management system to date. No aftermarket EFI manufacturer has ever spent that on all they do, let alone R&D.

Motronic's disadvantage is that it isn't free-programmable to anyone, but it is a good thing too for some of us. One disadvantage that I see to it is that it is sometimes too smart and does too much to save people's engines even when tuners that have no clue what they are doing mess with it.

Motronic is an open book to me and I have yet to reach its limits in terms of programmability. Some people claim an S2 can't do much above 350-400 HP on a standard Motronic, well, I have proof that it can be done safely, my business partner's (Doug) 440 BHP S2, Audiboy's 480 BHP S2, and a dutch friend's 5xx BHP S2 (11.6 secs@124mph 1/4mile time) are proof of it, and they all run within reasonable safe limits, and with absolutely no knocking present whatsoever. How do you make sure an engine running MoTeC doesn't knock at 7200 RPM and full throttle only while shifting from 3rd to 4th for instance??? High RPM knocking can be devastating, especially on an engine that's as expensive as a 2.7T is...

IMHO, no system in the world can beat Motronic. Today's highest spec MoTeC isn't even close to 15 years' ago Audi S2 Motronic M2.3.2. Yes, MoTeC use 32 bit technology and enormous map sizes/resolution, but what is the point when there is no knock sensing function to protect the engine should a problem arise with the fuel supply (blocked fuel filter, dying fuel pump, or simply a bad batch of gas???)???

Lastly, when you build a radically different engine compared to stock, a Motronic system requires the same as a motec, it means remapping every single map to make sure all the settings suit the engine and that the engine runs happily and safely. The only difference is that Bosch have spent billions designing knock sensors and knock control systems built into Motronic systems, which can be used by a tuner to visualize knock sensor activity while tuning the engine, or by the ECU to keep the engine from blowing up.

Sorry for the long post, I had to add my 0.02 worth of Motronic tuning experience in here...

HTH,

Mihnea

RE Motronic, it is excellent yes. But remember it has been produced for mass production cars. It is by and large a bolt on system. Motec is a race tuned system and has to therefore be individually configured for your car. An off the shelf Motec box will not work, it must be dialled into your car. As such and assuming the tuner knows what they are doing it will be tailored to your car and you can add/remove as many sensors as you wish....at the end of the day they both do exactly the same thing. One has to be programmed from new the other has default settings already in place...but that is just my little opinion...

[tartan_rob]

I agree kind of....and I'm not saying its poo but why if it is so good is it not used in proper race engines? You know - engines that do not need big turbo's or NoS, but rely on good old fashioned technology such as GP engines screaming to 19k rpm running 105octane fuel and relatively speaking, small engine size producing best part of 1000bhp. Or the good old late 80's engines, 1.5 litre V6's de-tuned with turbo's to produce 1500bhp....

These ECU's have not had £15,000...lots of 0's in development. Several million but not so much as Motronic.....I wonder why they did not just buy a Motronic system and be done with it..?

[S2tuner]

Rob, very good point you have raised here...

The BIG difference between racing engines and street engines is that race engines have no emissions specs to comply to, most of the time they are only ran at WOT and thus, the functions integrated in such an ECU are much more limited than on a street/standard car. Which is also why they cost less, but those ECUs have no knock sensors and in many cases no lambda control is fitted either. Tuning those racing engines is something only very qualified engineers are allowed to do (I happen to know personally a couple of them, one of them is a close friend who has worked for the Skoda WRC team and is currently an "applikateur"(OEM tuner in german) at the Porsche factory in Stuttgart).

HTH,

Mihnea

I agree kind of....and I'm not saying its poo but why if it is so good is it not used in proper race engines? You know - engines that do not need big turbo's or NoS, but rely on good old fashioned technology such as GP engines screaming to 19k rpm running 105octane fuel and relatively speaking, small engine size producing best part of 1000bhp. Or the good old late 80's engines, 1.5 litre V6's de-tuned with turbo's to produce 1500bhp....

These ECU's have not had £15,000...lots of 0's in development. Several million but not so much as Motronic.....I wonder why they did not just buy a Motronic system and be done with it..?

[Turbo Joe]

I went SKN remapping. Pretty good. Outing 326bhp. I heard mixed reviews on Revo. One guy's car kept bucking where the boost kept suddenly coming in and going out. Ive heard of stories like that both on the trial and the permenant remaps using the Revo system.

[audiboy]

326 with exhaust and air filter isnt bad at all. Do SKN do there own software, or is it someone elses??

[Turbo Joe]

Nah, its all their software. They are the mother company in Germany and Scottsmototune is one of their outlets in the UK, Dover to be precise.