Finance?

[boff]

Speak to jamie garside at eurolease - he's a magician

[boff]

http://www.eurolease-uk.com

[R33]

Will do, many thanks

[W8PMC]

Audi used to display guaranteed future value in their quotes. Now it is optional final payment. I guess the two terms are the same. (Meaning they will guarantee a buy back at that price)

Looking at the calculator, they are giving a value of £43k minimum for a 3yr old 30,000 mile car. Considering you can now buy an RS6 base spec for around £68k, £25k depreciation over 3yrs isn't too bad. Works out at around 63% of the discounted purchase price. Additional extras will make your car a more attractive for sure but you're taking the depreciation hit on them full whack yourself. The GFV may increase slightly with a select few mods, I guess Ceramics will bump it up a few £k

Not a chance those figures would be correct as Audi in a month of Sundays would not write down a final guaranteed value that high comparative to the purchase price. Either the £43k car in 3yrs was £90k ish OTR or the GFV is not guaranteed & is purely an optional final payment so can be inflated to virtually any figure the dealer or customer likes in order to massage the monthly payments or deposit.

I'm no expert but i've never seen any Audi RS (or any similar models) over the years hold more than a 50% value after 3years. Audi guaranteeing 63% after 3yrs would just never happen in my opinion.

[Leo-RS]

Sorry Paul, you are incorrect, Audi have guaranteed a £43.1k future value for a 30k mile 3yr old car as can be seen live on their website....



This is for a BASE spec model with no options.

Up until last week, the deal was even better on a 3yr old car with 15k miles...



Any miles over the 15000 being charged at £90 for each 1000m.

Now what I have done in my calculation is take depreciation from the point of the discounted car not from its initial £78k list price. The real depreciation to a buyer is that from what he pays up top. Audi give a £6k finance contribution to take it down from £78k to £72k straight away, you then start negotiations with your dealer from this point on. Just as a real life example, I managed to get my dealer down to £67.5k (13.4% discount off its £78k list) and then additional options on top each had a 16.67% reduction on their listed values.

At the very best (up until last week), someone was able to buy a base spec no option £67.5k car and it was guaranteed to be worth £46.3k after 3yrs 15k miles. That is quite exceptional in my eyes (£46.3k / £67.5k = 68.6% of its value) - This has now been removed by Audi UK, the best deal now is on the 30,000/3yrs at £43.1k GFV. (There is an anomaly if you now select 15000/3yrs, GFV is lower)

Optional final payment = Guaranteed future value (Highlighted in Yellow are your options). You have the choice to hand the car back and walk away, PX or pay the optional payment. The optional final payment cannot be manipulated by a dealership to massage figures, these are derived centrally by Audi UK. The only way they alter is by annual mileage and term selection.

The trick to beat depreciation is to go easy on the options list. For sure, spec a £100k car but its guaranteed buy back value wont be much better than the values shown. I guess the same way 2nd hand CAP values hardly budge between a heavily optioned car vs a light optioned car. Same applies, extras are paid pretty much in their entirety by their first owners.

The 3yr GFV figures were increased a fair whack when the facelift was released. The older pre facelift values were not so good.

[W8PMC]

Sorry Paul, you are incorrect, Audi have guaranteed a £43.1k future value for a 30k mile 3yr old car as can be seen live on their website....



This is for a BASE spec model with no options.

Up until last week, the deal was even better on a 3yr old car with 15k miles...



Any miles over the 15000 being charged at £90 for each 1000m.

Now what I have done in my calculation is take depreciation from the point of the discounted car not from its initial £78k list price. The real depreciation to a buyer is that from what he pays up top. Audi give a £6k finance contribution to take it down from £78k to £72k straight away, you then start negotiations with your dealer from this point on. Just as a real life example, I managed to get my dealer down to £67.5k (13.4% discount off its £78k list) and then additional options on top each had a 16.67% reduction on their listed values.

At the very best (up until last week), someone was able to buy a base spec no option £67.5k car and it was guaranteed to be worth £46.3k after 3yrs 15k miles. That is quite exceptional in my eyes (£46.3k / £67.5k = 68.6% of its value) - This has now been removed by Audi UK, the best deal now is on the 30,000/3yrs at £43.1k GFV. (There is an anomaly if you now select 15000/3yrs, GFV is lower)

Optional final payment = Guaranteed future value (Highlighted in Yellow are your options). You have the choice to hand the car back and walk away, PX or pay the optional payment. The optional final payment cannot be manipulated by a dealership to massage figures, these are derived centrally by Audi UK. The only way they alter is by annual mileage and term selection.

The trick to beat depreciation is to go easy on the options list. For sure, spec a £100k car but its guaranteed buy back value wont be much better than the values shown. I guess the same way 2nd hand CAP values hardly budge between a heavily optioned car vs a light optioned car. Same applies, extras are paid pretty much in their entirety by their first owners.

The 3yr GFV figures were increased a fair whack when the facelift was released. The older pre facelift values were not so good.

The 2 examples you show are for cars selling at £78k so with a GFV of £43k that's a retained value of 55%. I agree it's slightly better than i would have expected but you'll not see the same GFV if the cash price is £10k lower. Audi's contribution on this programme is £6k towards the deposit so although it can be seen as a discount, it doesn't make the car cheaper it just means the purchaser has a lesser deposit to pay as if Audi

The 2nd example is somewhat unrealistic as who would buy such a car & only cover 15k miles in those 3 years. The GFV is only £3k higher on a car that's barely run in. That said it's not a bad deal if you're a very low mileage buyer & defo better than they were 2yrs ago when the C7 RS6 was launched.

Totally correct that 90% of options on a car being acquired by such means are almost suicidal as over the 36mths you'll have paid 100% of their value & get next to nothing back. They may appeal to a private buyer but the GFV will remain virtually unchanged. Are a few options that can work out cheap such as i'd guess the bigger wheels & perhaps Panoramic roof, but ceramics as well as B&O & no doubt the Exclusive options such as leather & paint would crucify the payments.

Not as good today either as the Audi contribution has vanished, although the Cash Price & GFV remain the same.


Solutions (PCP)
Start driving the Audi you want, today.

Solutions is the safe way to keep your options open. We’ll agree a future value for your car upfront, based on how much you drive. At the end of the term you can choose to trade your Audi in for a new one, keep it, or give it back (Terms and conditions apply).

Personal Contract Plan representative example for RS 6 Avant SE 4.0 TFSI quattro tiptronic
Duration 36 months
35 payments of £1,002.91
Your deposit £7,799.50
Retail cash price £77,995.00
Acceptance fee* £125.00
Optional final payment £43,117.65
Option to purchase fee** £60.00
Total amount payable £86,079.00
Total amount of credit £70,195.50
Representative APR 4.80% APR
Rate of interest 2.43% fixed
Average miles per year 10,000
Excess mileage (per mile)*** 9.00p

At the end of the Solutions Personal Contract Plan (PCP) agreement there are three options: i) retain the vehicle: pay the optional final payment to own the vehicle; ii) return the vehicle; or iii) replace: part exchange the vehicle, subject to status. Retail Sales only *Payable as first payment **Payable with optional final payment. ***Depending on agreed annual mileage. Available to 18's and over. Offer available for vehicles ordered by 31st December 2014 and delivered by 30th June 2015 from participating Centres. ^Deposit contribution is available when purchased on Solutions PCP. Offers are not available in conjunction with any other offer and may be varied or withdrawn at any time. Subject to availability. Terms and conditions apply. Finance subject to status. Accurate at time of publication October 2014. Audi Finance, Freepost Audi Finance

[Leo-RS]

Paul,

Not sure if you have played around with the Audi finance calculator or not but if not, please see below...

http://www.audi.co.uk/explore-models/fi ... &period=36

The GFV figures are correct for a £78k listed standard spec car, If you negotiate the price down to £67.5k (£73.5k - £6k Audi Contribution), the figures are still correct, they don't drop the GFV down because you've managed to negotiate discount. You do not need to physically spend the £78k to get the £43k guaranteed value. Therefore, your personal depreciation level is based on the price that you have paid not what it's listed as. If that's a standard car with no options, then it is possible to get that down to £67.5k with some negotiation, after 3yrs and 30k miles, the GFV is still set at £43.1k. If you managed to get the 15000/36 months deal and no options, then that is £67.5k down to £46.2k. This is best case scenario although would leave you with a base spec car and limited mileage. The RS6 is too much of a thirsty bugger for most to commute long distances in but I would say 10k is ample for most, if it's someone's weekend or 2nd car then 5000m per annum/15000 (3yrs) may do. If not, Audi only charge 9ppm over that (£90 per 1000m) or you could just opt for the slightly more expensive 10k/30k mile deal. Adding 15,000m excess mileage charges to your 15,000m plan bringing it upto 30,000m would still only cost you a £1,350 charge (15k x 9p). You would have to sit and do the maths as to which deal was cheaper. (£1350 / 36 = £37.50pm)

Trust me, I have just ordered one and know this is all correct. I have all the quotes here in pdf and can send them to you if you so wish showing the monthly premiums, level of deposit and how it rockets when you add the options (The GFV does not go up so you pay for the options in full, choosing the 21's made no difference to GFV although I'm guessing Ceramics would)

You are correct in a sense that depreciation is taken from the list price so it would be £43.1k / £78k = 55.25% but with the £6k Audi contribution and the further level of discount that's possible on these cars, then that £78k starting figure in real terms is incorrect (It's £72k straight away with the Audi £6k contribution). Personally, I always go by what I've managed to get the car for after contributions/discount and then work out my personal depreciation from there.

I see your M5 is running very well, must be quite a shove when you get traction

[W8PMC]

I was only basing my assumption on the quoted cash price. If that was £68k then the finance quote would say £68k, not £78k. I've no idea what discounts Audi are currently offering on the C7 RS6, but i'd be fairly confident if the OTR price starts dropping then so will the GFV, as common sense sense when the new cost starts to drop then the market price for used goes the same way.

It's very easy to manipulate finance figures depending on ones needs, however as i read the above, the car costs £78k, Audi were chucking £6k into the deposit so that becomes a total of £13,800 & if you take one from the other the amount of credit is £64k which is £78k minus the customer deposit & Audi contribution. This means the GFV is 55% which is in line with what i'd expect, although is still a good figure.

I'd hope people don't buy an RS6 as a weekend car as that totally defeats the point of the car given it's meant to be an everyday uber wagon. Mines set at 13k pa as i want to enjoy it, track it & soon across Europe in it which is what it's designed for. Audi are very good with their PPM charge as i had to negotiate with BMW to get mine below 20ppm which is why i upped the ante to 13k pa & that's pretty much exactly what i'm doing.

Yes the car is a little OTT now with her Stage 2 tune. Predictable enough to be safe but mad enough to be exciting. Traction isn't too much of an issue but she does throw a couple of surprise moves every now & again. When wet & nasty you just modulate the loud pedal a little.

Had the C7 RS6 been available in Saloon form & had Audi been more realistic in their pricing 18mths ago then i may have stuck with Audi, but they've only now started to realise they need to shift them & are selling them for sensible money.

[kmpowell]

but i'd be fairly confident if the OTR price starts dropping then so will the GFV

Nope, GFV is completely unrelated to the negotiated OTR costs, it's fixed to the list OTR.

The GFV in that particular Audi finance cycle (they refresh values every few months) remains the same regardless of how much discount, contribution, deposit etc you have/get.

[Leo-RS]

As above, there are 2 depreciation stats to look at. Standard Car...

Depreciation from List (£78k) - (10k pa) deal is £43.1/£78k = 55.25% and on the previous (5k pa) deal it is £46.2k/£78k = 59.23%
Depreciation from Personal Cost (£67k) - (10k pa) deal is £43.1/£67k = 64.3% and on previous (5k pa) deal it is £46.2k/£67k = 68.95%

Depreciation from the list price is completely irrelevant, the car is not £78k and hasn't been for a long time, with the £6k contribution from Audi, it's £72k. It is then possible to get another £5k off that price through negotiation with your dealer.

Those no matter what way you look at it are impressive retained figures. Well done Audi In reality however, add in some options and those figures will start to plummet, not sure there will be any standard spec RS6's going around.

Edit...

Infact, it's even better, Base price now down to £66.5k.

Makes these RS6's a very attractive purchase given the fact they're guaranteed to be worth £43k at 30k/36 months.

[HYFR]

But if the "discount" is a deposit contribution, the interest cost is still based on the list price, so VWFS win and it likely funds the £3k contribution so the house always wins

[kmpowell]

But if the "discount" is a deposit contribution, the interest cost is still based on the list price

Exactly.

If somebody walks into an Audi dealer tomorrow and pays 'cash' for an RS6, they aren't automatically offered the discount, they pay the list price (if they are stupid enough not to ask for discount). Only when the finance is plugged in will the deposit contribution automatically be added.

[markwm]

But if the "discount" is a deposit contribution, the interest cost is still based on the list price

How's that matter though? The interest is paid on the outstanding amount isn't it?

If it came off the list price, car is £71k, deposit say £20k, interest to pay on £51k borrowed

If it's a deposit contribution, car is £77k, deposit is £20k+6k, interest to pay on £51k borrowed.

[HYFR]

That's what happens when an accountant looses his calculator !!!

[markwm]

The audi finance calculator gotta be all messed up? 10k miles cheaper than 5k and massive jump between 10k and 15k miles.

5k miles,£40k,
10k miles, £43k
15k miles, £35k
20k miles, £32k
25k miles, £30k
30k miles, £28k