Stage 2 Temptation

[Lukes3]

I have have had ago doing my own stage 2 manifold but on stock map at the moment (mrc soon see what they think)
But at the moment it has gutted pre cats,cold air feed, an the manifold done with flaps removed. An it is driving completely fine, maybe a little ruff at first start up from cold but give it a sec an it sorts its self out.

[PetrolDave]

Good point sorry I should have been clearer - I'm talking about Stage 2 map and Stage 2 manifold.

Stage 2 manifold http://www.mrctuning.com/index.php/audi ... ns/rs4-b7/ is:

Stage 2 Manifold
Flaps removed from manifold, ported runners, ported trumpets, Flap shaft is locked and more porting with step removed in runners. Not inc fitting and on exchange
* This cannot run on a stock map and has to be remapped to stage2

[Bladerider]

Just do it,

I went from a 100k mile asthmatic heap with only 330bhp (i think) on MRCs dyno to full stage 2 with manifold spacers, cut back trumpets and all options and it then made 435 or 438bhp which was a nice increase. It didn't suddenly make the car radically different, it was just a nice boost and it would keep the acceleration more linear higher in the rev range.

The thing that made a HUGE difference, and not always in a positive way is having the sport button go 100% throttle in the lower gears and it can also be done to make the throttle linear as well. As stock it is set as something like the first 50% of pedal movement only equates to 25% throttle opening - apologies if these figures arent quite right, its been a while since I thought about it. Having these things changed is great when you really want to "push on" and also makes blip shifts and heel & toe much easier, more natural and quicker. The bad thing is that it also makes the car a total bastard in traffic or when trying to pull away anything other than extremely gently or quite violently lol

You soon realise that while sport mode is great for impressing small boys with burble if you still have a valved system it also tends to make you look like a tool and not impress your passengers much when you go off kangaroo'ing down the street lol so use the sport button as intended - off for town, on for everything else. That said you DO get used to it and perhaps because I use my car as a work van in London alot its perhaps more memorable than if it was occasionally when it was being a pain, but it doesn't bother me and like i said, a half decent driver can adapt, it just sits there waiting to catch you when you aren't thinking about it lol

Whether you would feel any significant difference going from stage 1 to stage 2 I doubt it, I find it highly amusing when people are wrestling with these uniquely massive "RS" problems of whether to have a carbon intake or not due to the massive 10bhp difference in performance lol - I would be very interested to do several blind tests with people to try cars with 10bhp mapped out of them to see if they can tell a difference with their butt rather than what their ears might be telling them, a car weighing virtually 2 tons with driver, fuel and a packet of pork scratchings in, that has 420+bhp, is not the finely honed barometer for FEELING a 2% difference in power lol

Personally I like having the most I can get, so a stage 2 was always a no brainer, you can get Doug to setup the throttle anyway you want so dont let that put you off either, make sure you have CAF, inlet spacer and any other bits done at the same time to make use of the labour and get the best gains possible.

Oh it made almost no difference to mpg when I went from 300's to 400's so dont worry about that, these cars are like the automotive Olly Reed anyway lol

Driveability isn't affected other than the jerky throttle when in sport mode, I can pull away from the lights in 4th gear and once rolling it will trickle along at very low mph - under 1000rpm without complaining.

Enjoy !!

[Ozzyz]

I definitely recommend having the stage 2 map and manifold done, it's done nothing but improve the way the car drives since I've got it back from MRC. Feel and responce has increased massively especIally in sport mode. I can't see how the modifications will be worse for the clutch or gearbox, I use the car as a daily driver and quite often I'm stuck in some stop start traffic which is not ideal for the car, but whenever I get a chance I will give the "Italian tune" on every journey, which gets a nice amount of air into its lungs! Like Bladerider said sportmode is at its best when hammering down a country road or a dual carriageway, I like the fact that you cruise around in normal mode and when you feel like thrashing it about you simply press the S button and the car is transformed, it really does make a huge difference with the stage 2 map

I haven't noticing any real difference in economy or fuel range since, after all the car is never going to be doing 30mpg!
I also haven't notified my insurance about any of the modifications that are on the car.

All I can say is have it done! You won't regret it!

[marc1]

Stage 2 removes the tumble flaps that are closed until about 3k RPM doesn't it?

No it doesn't. I had Stage 2 done by MRC last year and the tumble flaps are not part of the Stage 2 package.

Try looking at the MRC website here http://www.mrctuning.com/index.php/audi ... ns/rs4-b7/ where it says:

A Stage 2 Map is custom to your car and performed on the dyno. Being normally aspirated every change to your car needs verified and proven on the dyno. Includes: Full throttle in all gears. VVT modifications. Linear throttle option in non sport mode. Secondary air injection disabled for running cold air feeds, no precats, racecats or no cats. Quiet mode start mode. Includes engine health check and dyno time

I would assume the flaps are to aid drivability at low revs or something.

The tumble flaps are to help create an uneven mixture in the cylinder at low rpm to allow lean burn but with places where the mixture is concentrated enough to start combustion easily. Without tumble a lean burn mixture would be so weak it would be a right so-and-so to ignite.

Cheers Dave, it must have been the manifold (stage 1 and 2) I was thinking of. Wonder what the map does to stop it running like a pig if they are removed though?

Good point sorry I should have been clearer - I'm talking about Stage 2 map and Stage 2 manifold.

Stage 2 manifold http://www.mrctuning.com/index.php/audi ... ns/rs4-b7/ is:

Stage 2 Manifold
Flaps removed from manifold, ported runners, ported trumpets, Flap shaft is locked and more porting with step removed in runners. Not inc fitting and on exchange
* This cannot run on a stock map and has to be remapped to stage2

[JCviggen]

Wonder what the map does to stop it running like a pig if they are removed though?

More fuel would probably help. If I remember correctly the tumble flaps allow for a leaner burn by creating an uneven mixture which is easier to ignite.

[marc1]

So does that mean removing the flaps and mapping for more fuel will allow for further power increases?

[JCviggen]

The only difference is when the flaps would be in the *closed* position. At higher load and RPM they would be open anyway and there's not much of a difference between the flaps being open or absent altogether. I've not seen it demonstrated that removing them brings big gains. Maybe a few horses you wouldn't notice. But you're removing a system which is somewhat prone to failure so that's the main benefit in my opinion.

[RossDagley]

Would be helpful when people talk of Stage 2 to state whether it's:

Stage 2 map
Stage 2 map + manifold

I'd be interested to know if the everyday drivability of the RS4 is affected by a full stage 2, where manifold work has been done along with a re-map. Half the appeal of the RS4 to me is the way it can pootle around town in high gears with no fuss.

Stage two (inc manifold) is a mixed blessing. I have the tumble flaps removed obviously, and it's "a regret". It does make the car jerky and lumpy on small throttle positions, worse when cold. If I could give up say 5hp and put the flaps back in, I would do it personally. BUT - they're removed mainly to reduce the places carbon deposits build up, not for a performance gain. If I was doing it again, I wouldn't have them removed that's for sure.

Sports mode, cold engine, no tumble flaps, part throttle (round town) = undrivable/kangaroo fuel. I don't actually like the throttle response of sport mode in the remap so actually never use sports mode at all as after all, it's only a different throttle ramp and opening of the exhaust valves of which I don't have anyway. However, the rest of the map is fine. 1st-3rd torque is noticeably improved for pulling away etc and the car pulls strongly throughout the revs.

[docurley]

Hummm very interesting feed back there.

[marc1]

Thanks Ross, that's a really interesting review.

So does anyone know why the stock map limits torque in 1st - 3rd?

Cheers

[Surrey Sam]

Thanks Ross, very useful feedback and a great insight into real world use there. When modifying cars it's very easy to end up chasing the greatest rolling road figures but then create a car that's not as nice to drive everyday.

[RossDagley]

When modifying cars it's very easy to end up chasing the greatest rolling road figures but then create a car that's not as nice to drive everyday.

I can demonstrate that perfectly with an old dyno graph from my 400hp peugeot 106 gti...



150hp increase in 1000rpm in an 800kg car = undrivable

I went from this setup to a different turbo and 70hp less in the end and it was a much MUCH nicer car to drive

[neilparf]

I can only echo Ross's experience. Stage 2, no tumble flaps but standard manifold, forget you are in sport mode and the car jumps around like it's on Walter White's finest...

That said, it's not every time and there genuinely is a window (albeit small) that throttle etiquette no matter how subtle will get the car jumping. Out of sport, it's just fine and this is really only around town when, at times I want the exhaust flaps closed and noise to a minimum. Other than that, warm engine, sport, revs up at 4K+ and I wouldn't have it any other way...

I do like throttle response and the associated torque in say 4th/5th - it can pull like a train. Thats the up trend to the small aforementioned down side...

[RossDagley]

Yes - the 6th gear torque is something that still makes me smile. The ability to be doing 70mph and just roll-on to 100+ with a gentle squeeze is lovely. But as I say, that's not down to the (lack of) tumble flaps. I would keep them if you acknowledge they can get grubby and are another thing that need cleaning periodically.