Stage 2 Temptation

[drmanhattan]

I’ve been following the discussion on Ozzyz’s recent thread with interest as I’m considering going Stage 2 in the next few months. Whilst the power figures don’t seem much to get excited about I can only imagine the extra torque makes it feel like a different car. The positives are obviously well documented on this forum but I’m interested to understand if there are any negatives so I’ve got a couple of questions which I’d be grateful for a bit of help with:

- Is an otherwise standard car capable of handling the increased power/torque if used as a daily driver?

- Have any of you who have gone Stage 2 noticed any related issues developing with the car (e.g. increased clutch / gearbox wear etc), and what does it do to fuel economy?

- Is anyone aware of any stories of catastrophic failure following a Stage 2 conversion?

It’s probably worth adding that I don’t track it.

What do people generally do about insurance? It’s obviously notifiable to insurers but what exactly do you tell them as presumably “My RS4 has gone Stage 2” is pretty meaningless to most insurer’s customer service people. What does it do to the preium? Can anyone recommend any competitive insurers in the modded RS4 market?

Cheers

[docurley]

The only noticeable difference (physical) of a stage II would be the exhaust the rest is internal and software.

I don't have a stage II and like you it's something I would love to do so have read near on most threads about it on here and about what the US guys have done for there version of a stage II. My conclusion is that clutches only go if they were near to end of life and the stage II will highlight that if they are. MRC from what other have pointed out will normally advise if they feel a component is near end of life and needs replacement, but as for issue after I have never head of a issue caused by a stage II.

Fuel usage....... well I can only imagine that went through the window for the first few weeks before it settled down. I know what I was like when I first got my RS4, and coming from a 1.8T was a bit of a reality check

[Noyjatat]

I had mine done and loved the change in throttle response. I didn't have any issues with it at all and ran the car for over 18 months before having to sell it due to personal circumstances at the time. I got insured with Sky Insurance, a group many people on here use if they have modified their car. I am currently with them now. They ended up being £60 cheaper for me after the mods than the car was without. No idea why and they covered everything like for like as well. I informed them of the power increase and they based mine on that.

If you are going to go down the stage 2 route I would suggest getting the carbon clean done at the same time if its never been done. Most of the cars are running around 370-380 if they are getting on in miles and haven't been modified. You should see some gains in power but all in all its a great package and leaves you thinking thats how the car should feel.

[JCviggen]

While my car is still stock (and, in fact, not running at all currently) I'm confident that a stage 2 has little or no adverse effect on reliability. You're only getting a bit more power than they were supposed to have from the factory anyway. The removal of the torque limitation in the first 3 gears makes a lot of difference in how the car feels but from 4th gear onwards that limiter would not be there anyway. So the clutch and gearbox are pretty used it to begin with.

Extracting missing horsepower from an NA engine doesn't create the same extra stresses a tuned turbo car has to deal with. Those tend to get a mountain of torque low down, higher intake and exhaust gas temps as well. With an NA car you're really working to bring intake temps down and increase exhaust flow. Basically the engine breathes better thus makes more power whilst not doing anything significantly more demanding. The only thing that would add to the stresses on the engine that I can think of would be increasing the rev limit.

[toyneg]

I've had the Stage 2 on mine for about 20mths and haven't had any issues whatsoever and I do track mine these cars need to be driven hard regularly to keep them healthy

i havent noticed any change in fuel economy really, still about 220 miles out of a tank but believe me the car feels much better than stock in terms of the responsiveness of it.

i didnt notify my ins about the remap, in my eyes all it does its take the power back up to what Audi said it was out of the box anyway, all my other mods are listed however - With Adrian Flux

[drmanhattan]

Thanks very much for the replies - all very helpful and reassuring. I think it's time to do this, especially as I was thinking about shifting it on, but if I get this done then I'm hoping it will be like having bought a totally different (and better) car...should hopefully reinvigorate my enthusiasm for ownership and as an added bonus I'll hopefully not get my pants pulled down by hot hatches when I'm not totally on the ball!

I had a carbon clean done about 10k miles ago so it hopefully shouldn't need that but I'm sure they'll tell me if it needs another...

This great plan could of course be blown apart by the upcoming MOT!

[Audi Pardner]

Good thread and some interesting responses and advice as I'm looking to get mine done this year.

Toyneg - take your point about it just taking the engine back up to what it produced originally, but given insurance companies' notoriety for weasling out on claims, wouldn't it be safer to tell them? I can just see them saying " undeclared modification" in the event of a claim

[marc1]

Stage 2 removes the tumble flaps that are closed until about 3k RPM doesn't it? Is there any adverse affect to this? Why are they there? Also what affect does allowing WOT in 1st - 3rd have and why did Audi limit it on stock cars? I get it on something like a Ford ST/RS, but on something with permenant AWD I don't understand it and therefore don't understand if it's compromising anything by removing it?

[docurley]

Some of these guys have had stage II for a while now and I have not heard of any adverse issue due to the remap.

[drmanhattan]

Also what affect does allowing WOT in 1st - 3rd have and why did Audi limit it on stock cars? I get it on something like a Ford ST/RS, but on something with permenant AWD I don't understand it and therefore don't understand if it's compromising anything by removing it?

Wasn't the RS4 realised around the same time as the R8? I imagine the Audi marketing department might not have been too happy getting grilled by customers asking why they were struggling to pull away from an estate car...maybe it's all part of product positioning within the brand!

[marc1]

Lol, maybe it is as simple as that. would be interesting to know if the flaps exist in the R8 version of the engine and the limited throttle.

I would assume the flaps are to aid drivability at low revs or something.

[PetrolDave]

Stage 2 removes the tumble flaps that are closed until about 3k RPM doesn't it?

No it doesn't. I had Stage 2 done by MRC last year and the tumble flaps are not part of the Stage 2 package.

Try looking at the MRC website here http://www.mrctuning.com/index.php/audi ... ns/rs4-b7/ where it says:

A Stage 2 Map is custom to your car and performed on the dyno. Being normally aspirated every change to your car needs verified and proven on the dyno. Includes: Full throttle in all gears. VVT modifications. Linear throttle option in non sport mode. Secondary air injection disabled for running cold air feeds, no precats, racecats or no cats. Quiet mode start mode. Includes engine health check and dyno time

[PetrolDave]

I would assume the flaps are to aid drivability at low revs or something.

The tumble flaps are to help create an uneven mixture in the cylinder at low rpm to allow lean burn but with places where the mixture is concentrated enough to start combustion easily. Without tumble a lean burn mixture would be so weak it would be a right so-and-so to ignite.

[Surrey Sam]

Would be helpful when people talk of Stage 2 to state whether it's:

Stage 2 map
Stage 2 map + manifold

I'd be interested to know if the everyday drivability of the RS4 is affected by a full stage 2, where manifold work has been done along with a re-map. Half the appeal of the RS4 to me is the way it can pootle around town in high gears with no fuss.

[drmanhattan]

Good point sorry I should have been clearer - I'm talking about Stage 2 map and Stage 2 manifold.