APR MTM GIAC AMS Chip Shootout Info

[sitas3]

Andy, certainly take the 5 hour revo trial and see what you think. also if possible, try an AMD'd and MTM'd S3 then you can then choose the right one for your/her driving style etc.. Please don't just take my word for granted anyway. [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Let us know how you get on.

[Paul-RS]

andiroo, when you pick up your monster from AmD?

im only 20 mile away, im im off, i could pop up and take you out for a spin.

[Joules]

Thanks for the great input all.

I will be posting my S4 REVO mapped findings early April. I will take the 5 hour trial and go from there.

Joules [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[Chins]

Enjoyable thread. Think Ive got a headache after reading it [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I wouldnt claim to be close to being an expert on this, but:

RR vs Road

I would really like to get some insight into this. Most people are aware that Scooby engines can be a pain in the arse with remaps etc. Bob Rawle is one of the most respected remappers out there. He always uses the road - ok he doesnt have his own RR, as its still really a hobby for him. Some of his input has been that cars that pink on the rollers, dont on the road. The stresses exerted by the RR are much greater than you would expect on the road. You also have the issue of heat soak I would of thought. Constant runs on the rollers cant lead to consistency can they ?. None of the tuners Ive seen really have sufficent cooling for sustained runs. Andys Sportec RS4 suffered on track with shed loads of airflow.

I have certainly been in a couple of cars by tuners other than Revo, that have pinked on the rollers, but Ive not seen reports to say they have gone bang thousands of miles later.

AMD and Sportec

AMD have always sold themselves on the only way is an individual remap. Which I have no problem with. But they now seem happy to sell a generic chip [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] Interested in why they would offer this in light of their previous stance. I personally dont think its bad to see them offer the Sportec chip, infact its great to see depending on the price. How much are they charging for the chips RS4, S4 and S3 ?

Jonathan

[Andiroo]

Thanks SiTa, will let u know mate.

Paul, will hopefully pick her up in the next two weeks - will take you up on your offer if you're free (and maybe return the compliment [img]images/graemlins/1syellow1.gif[/img])

Joules, good luck and keep us posted [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[Andiroo]

Hey Chins - good points mate, I'm sure if the right changes can be made then on-road is far superior to a RR, apart from you cant measure bhp&torque to show you what you've paid for [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Just so you know, the Sportec mapping isn't generic either - it's a different set of tolerances linked to gas-flowed turbos (well mine was anyway) to give a nice flat torque curve unlike AmD & MTM. Final settings take place on the RR to make it specific to the car in question [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[sitas3]

Final settings take place on the RR to make it specific to the car in question

Andy, any indications as to which settings the tuners typically change?

[Andiroo]

Usually advance/<beep> of ignition to bring back within tolerances of the knock sensors, tied in with mapping of air/fuel mix and volume - which can be all temperature influenced from the turbo cycle (say intercooler heatsoak). Obviously all dependant on boost levels, both peak and constant, as more boost equates to more fuel and air requirement. Tie all this in with piston and valve wear (carbonised pistons increase the chance of detonation so ignition can't be advanced as much as normal), and furthermore the condition of piston rings and skirts (which can all let heat escape from the combustion chamber = loss of power), then you have an idea of why I like the specific route rather than generic [img]images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Then if you upgrade to sports cats and downpipes you throw even more elements into the equation [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[sitas3]

Jeez, quite a bit of remapping stuff going on there from the sound of it.

Typically, how long would you expect this to take on the rolling road or is it very much dependent on how bad/good the car is, as well as operator knowledge etc??

Sorry for the questions, they help me (and hopefully others) understand what happens. [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Andiroo]

Can indeed take some time - would say typically 2/3hrs. Although if there are a few problems (y piece, hoses, dv's or even setting up intercoolers) then it can take most of the day [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] My last RR at AmD for the intercoolers took two days to setup [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] but it was there first attempt - and they got it spot on, no more trackday overheating and 20nM extra torque [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[Bushy]

My stage 1 remap at AmD took around 5-6hours and boy was i bored sat in reception all that time [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Crafty]

Bob Rawle is one of the most respected remappers out there. He always uses the road - ok he doesnt have his own RR, as its still really a hobby for him. Some of his input has been that cars that pink on the rollers, dont on the road.

Anyone who has ever spoken to Bob will know he always bases his opinions on well thought out logic. Its the kind of guy he is.
Wouldn't say its just a hobby to him though. I think the business with his partner is going pretty well.

Fit an induction air temperature gauge/display to your car, watch it on the open road and watch it on a rolling road, even with big powerful fans temps on a rolling road are far higher, in some respects I guess you could say its wrong to map on a rolling road as the car is unlikely to have to run in this environment.
That said it could be argued that a rolling road presents the most hostile environment the car could be forced to run it, therefore if its ok on a rolling road it should be ok on the street.. ( with correction factors for air temp etc... ).

Don't profess to be an expert ( far from it ).

One thing is for sure - all the available tuning options in the audi market provide an excellent improvement over the standard car, picking between them isn't so easy..

[Andiroo]

Have to agree Crafty [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] if only a proper road was "rolling" and could give you bhp and torque figures, would be the best of both worlds then [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[Joules]

Saying this even the open road can cause problems with tuning variables. I.e. mapping in winter or the summer.

When I had an open road map done the outside temp was 6 Deg C and it was raining. The latter getting lashed across my intercooler (Scooby) made for a great IC spray and hence the air temp between the IC and trottle body were low. Due to this I had to rely on the skill of the mapper to get it right.

Still I reckon the on road mapping was very helpful. For peace of mind I asked to wear DET Cans (Head phones).... Being paranoid about DET I took the car to 100 coasted and then cracked the throttle open, YES very extreme.(Oh and this was done on an airfield of course [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]) At this speed DET can be a killer.... we then mapped out anything other than transitional DET.

So there can be good and bad in either approach...

Joules

[johneroberts]

Found this on RS6.com looked interesting for the Sportec fans here