Not loving the Lotus Elise

[TimDogg]

Guys,

As you might know I recently bought a 2004 Lotus Elise 111R. It has the Toyota motor with the 2nd cams and has 190 bhp - this makes it as fast as the RS4 most probably, I can't be bothered with the maths. It corners on rails, is predictable and offers the driver feedback whilst simultaneously giving them confidence. I've done things to it - replaced the speakers with Focals, had both seats out for a full clean inside and out and some minor stuff. I've taken it for a drive through Snowdonia National Park, up the A5 and around the Top Gear roads of north Wales but....

I don't like it very much.

I still have the RS4 on the driveway and would rather take that if I'm going out but the Elise turns heads everywhere it goes and has a huge following on other websites. I don't really know why I'm not that impressed with it. Some things really annoy me about it - you have to carry a key AND an immobiliser tag (they aren't combined), long brake travel, high clutch point, no stereo will ever sound right in this car, it feels like it's built by school-kids and I don't get 'a sense of occasion' from it. Things I like I listed above - am I missing something? I even think that if I turned it into a track car it wouldn't be enough, there is just something that I'm not liking and I don't know what it is.

Has anyone else had this with any car. Incidentally it cost about the same as the RS is worth now, both are worth late £teens - RS has 40k miles on a '06 plate, Elise 20k miles on a '04. How do these Lotus' hold their value so much?

I need help, maybe I've fallen out of love with motoring

[PJC]

Not sure you have fallen out of love, the Exige is a raw car which needs your constant attention, not a relaxing drive at all, got back in the RS4 and thought the bucket seats were big and the steering wheel was huge.

I am loving the Exige, never driven an Elise though, my 6500 mile car I have had for only a week now has 7300 on clock.

Haven't had the stereo on, wouldn't be able to hear it anyway over the supercharger.

[Noyjatat]

Maybe your getting old Tim dogg hehe or maybe its just not that big a leap from the RS4 to see a noticeable driving difference especially with the RS4 sounding like it does some things better. I guess you need a bigger jump to get the benefits.

[adsgreen]

Be dull if we all liked the same things

The rs4 most certainly does some things better - it's an all rounder.
The Elise is way more compromised but no matter what you do with an rs4 it'll always feel a bit boat like after.

Long brake pedal on an 04 model isn't what is expect. They were the first with abs / assisted braked and the pedal was notoriously firm. So much so it was relaxed in later models. A good test to see if all is well- go out and brake hard without abs. Your foot should be almost exactly lined up with the throttle for heel n toe. If its gone beyond this then that's not right.

In the real world is expect it to be slightly slower than an rs4 - launch is everything on the n/a cars and you need about 6000-7000 rpm and no mechanical sympathy to do it on an Elise.

Tbh these cars need the right road to make sense (or track ).
They are also very sensitive to geo.

Ps
<snigger>
changing speakers in an Elise.
Might as well put a fridge in an igloo
</snigger>

[PJC]

LOL

Ps
<snigger>
changing speakers in an Elise.
Might as well put a fridge in an igloo
</snigger>[/quote]

[535dboy]

Sorry you don't like it, bit surprised but the B7 is such a great car that maybe it is not enough

Ps iPod and headphones are better than speakers!!!

[adsgreen]

Get engine mount inserts, cone filter and stage 2 exhaust.
That'll change the feel

[TimDogg]

Yeah, changing the speakers was absolutely pointless. I'll check the brake pedal but the geo seems fine, it doesn't help being 5 hrs drive from the nearest dealership tbh. I think I need a long journey to sort us both out - was suppose to be going to the ring in July but work stops that damnit - might go and find Scotland.

Heard about the engine mounts, at what point is this car still actually an Elise though, I feel like I'm building a new car!

[sonny]

Get engine mount inserts, cone filter and stage 2 exhaust.
That'll change the feel

[adsgreen]

That's part of the charm of the Elise - I bet no two cars are the same

It may help to setup a more aggressive geo. the factory moved to a conservative setup as the s1 cars were setup neutrally which for most average drivers is also known as 'twitchy' (high speed lift off oversteer a plenty). S2 cars (ESP the toyotas) are setup for a lot of understeer by default.

What tyres has it got?

Where are you based?

[TimDogg]

It does understeer and is quite predictable so far - the tyres are Kuhnos, not sure which ones as I'm at work but they are new. I'm on Anglesey = miles away from civilisation. She does feel light at the front-end high speed, maybe a splitter will help.

[adsgreen]

Ahhh - Khumo tyres whilst "OK" would not be on my shortlist of tyres for an elise.
The main problem with the elise (and all light cars) is that stock off the shelf tyres (like the khumo's - 99% sure) is that they are designed for much heavier average car weight.
Stick them on a light car and they just don't work as well as they should.
The standard fitment tyres for the 111r I believe are Yoko Advan neova AD07 - an al round great little tyre and very very soft compound.

This is the point with light cars - whilst classical physics says that the friction is proportional to the force applied (ie, a car twice as heavy can generate twice as much "friction" on the tyres) this is very simplistic when you take into account tyre construction. In short, with a light car you can safely run a much softer compound rubber and make use of a higher co-efficient of friction. For example, the official track tyres were Yoko 048's semi slicks which are technically a wet race tyre. The lotus part was suffixed "LTS" and actually involved iirc a softer compound from the manufacturer than what they offered.

[TimDogg]

Right, that's it - tyre changes all round!

[adsgreen]

Don't be tempted with semi slicks - great on track it's almost impossible to get them up to temp on the road. And when it rains they are beyond scary. Also on track other tyres can be slower but more fun iyswim.

The advan tyres ares also marks lts for the spcific compound. The kumhos are under 50 quid each so can see why they were fitted and whyntheynare perhaps not helping.

[TimDogg]

My wife followed me on a twisty B road, she was in her MX-5 and she said that there was no way she could keep up. The RS4 does seems so much quicker though, not so much on the bends but it just pulls so much on the straights that it makes it back up - anything over a 100 mph and the RS would be quicker than the Elise.

Top Gear Lap times

01:25.7 Audi RS4
01:28.2 Lotus Elise Sport 190 (which I don't have but I do have the Toyota 190 bhp so closest thing)

I'm hopefully putting a larger (300mm) wheel on at the weekend and then, frustratingly, I've run out of things to do. I think this will become a track car as I'm pushing it too hard on the road and that's not fair to anyone.