Low cost brake upgrade.

[DJG]

My front and rear disks and pads need replacing.

Can't afford Porsche brakes [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Even from Audi I am looking at at least £700 all in with several dealers charging a lot more. Standard front disks are £90 each which seems a lot as we know they are pretty crap!

Surprised there don't seem to be many options around. Maybe because there aren't that many S4s around and most will still be young enough to be using original parts.

Currently the best low cost option seems to be to go to AMD for standard disks and EBC Greenstuff pads.

Anyone else have any better thoughts?

Did have greenstuff pads on a previous A4, and ended up with horrible brake judder, but put this down to having the new pads put on fairly worn disks.

David

[Andiroo]

Hi David, the nearest thing you will get to Porsche brakes, is the guys who make them in the first place - Brembo. Forge have a nice Brembo kit that seems quite a lot cheaper than the Porsche stuff Forge Brembo S4

Also try RS4Steve and see if he can put a good AP Racing deal together for you [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] seems to be the bollocks for "not the norm" which can't be bad [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Apart from these mate, go OEM discs again with Pagid Blues or greenstuff and expect to replace them in 15k miles.

If you do go Brembo or AP, pm me and I will let you know how to get in excess of 30k miles out of your discs with some little tricks [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Andiroo

[jeffw]

The HiSpec stuff is excellent.....just done my 3rd track day (Silverstone yesterday) and they still wont fade and I've got the 4-pots not the 6-pots. Highly recommended. Or you could stick with the 'designer' brands [img]images/graemlins/roflmao.gif[/img]

The cheapest way to do it is replace the rear disc with standard and add Pagid or EBC pads and then get 335 x 32 discs and 4 or 6 pots from HiSpec. Still pricy though compared with replacing the standard discs and pads.

[DJG]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the thoughts.

Think we may have a different idea of what "low cost" is though [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Seriously I'm not a track day person, so fade not the problem, just lack of initial bite, so change of pads and OEM disks may be enough.

Surprised that Tarox, Black Diamond or someone don't make standard sized replacements.

The worrying thing about spending time on this site with you guys is that it gets you thinking that the Forge/Brembo kit is a good economy option [img]images/graemlins/nodder.gif[/img]

David

[img]images/graemlins/s4anogaro.gif[/img] with black/blue pimp interior. I like it anyway [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[jeffw]

The reason I started done the HiSpec route is that I tried to get replacement pads for my standard front brakes and no one does them. My car is a Nov 99 and has calipers that where unique to Oct/Nov 99 [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Nige_RS4]

If you're not planning to do track days, stick with OEM stuff except for the pads. Try Paul@vagparts.com for the discs and Forge for EBC greenstuff - have had several recommendations from S4 owners on EBC pads. The problem with S4 brakes is the pads, not the discs or calipers. Read more about it here.

[DJG]

Thanks Nige,

There is a saving in getting the disks via Paul, but not as large an amount as on a lot of other items. Will give Forge a try for the pads.

David

[Prawn]

I have to disagree with some of the comments so far.

I initially upgraded to Greenstuff pads, yes they did bite better but.... in my opinion they overheated the disc, the weak point on the std brakes is the discs as much as the pads.
If you have to stop repeatedly from high speed, ie when pushing hard on a country lane the excess heat produced by using the greenstuff pads actually expands the disc to the point it rubs the caliper - hence the bloody terrible 'graunching' noise you will sometimes experience.
If you want better brakes - bite the bullet and upgrade to a 4 pot set up, wether it be Porsche, Movit, Hispec or Wilwood.
I initially felt unprepared to pay £1500 for brakes but saw the light pretty soon after killing the brakes on a nice B road
Who cares if your car will go fast, if it doesn't stop you WILL be in the S**T at some point !

[Prawn]

Oooops Prat [img]images/graemlins/062802beat_prv.gif[/img]

Meant to put this in the thread re fast road pads.

[Nige_RS4]

David, don't know anywhere that sells uprated discs for the S4 in the UK, here is a link to ECS Tuning in the US who offer cross-drilled discs. Probably cost an arm and a leg to ship to the UK?? I am also considering the Forge Brembo/Porsche kit, but want to give the EBC pads a go before I take the plunge.

Nige.

[DavidT]

Nige,

Is the link you posted for the previous (5cyl) S4 or the B5 (v6tt) S4 ?

My understanding from AmD is that the current S4 front brakes suffer from a lack of clamping effort because they are single piston with four pads and use a lever arrangement.

David

[Nige_RS4]

David, it refers to the new B5 S4 (only available in the US from 2000-2002). I considered a set of Carrera 4 monobloc calipers over the std discs, as this would be a much cheaper solution over a full disc/caliper upgrade (and improve the availability of upgraded pad materials).

Here is the response I got back from these guys in the BIRA:

Hello, Nige, thanks for the interest. Carrera rotors will definitely need an adapter mounting bracket to fit onto the Audi S4.

Can you tell me what year S4 we're discussing? If it's the newest S4, we tried adding Carrera calipers over the S4 rotors on the car and noticed no difference in performance. You can read my diatribe on that here: http://www.bira.org/neus4.html

If it's the older S-cars, then we found that it works quite well for improving the brakes.

Greg Amy
BIRA.ORG

Not sure this answers the original question, but it does seem to suggest that the existing calipers are up to the job and either the OEM disc or pads are lacking. AW Forum has lots of reports from S4 owners suffering from warped discs and are blaiming the discs, but the BIRA reports does suggest that if the pads could handle high temperaturs, the discs wouldn't warp. Anyone tried the PAGID offering for the S4 fronts?

[DavidT]

David,

I agree with you on the 'low cost' perceptions. £ 1000 is not cheap.

From what I have learned, EBC Greenstuff do improve braking on the standard calipers and discs, initial bite in particular. IMHO however, they can eat and warp discs, I was told this is because they put too much heat into the discs.

I need new discs and pads all round on my car soon and Audi have quoted £ 423 front and £ 322 rear inc VAT & fitting.

The fronts are a non-starter because the long pedal (that feels like there is nothing at the bottom) spoils the car for me, so why replace like with like ? Upgrading brakes seems to be a case of matching components (harder pads need better discs etc) so I reckon the Hi-spec 335mm four piston ones are for me £ 1150 all in with Pagid pads. I have not found Tarox, EBC or any other reasonably priced replacement discs.

I will fit standard rears because they do so little work anyway. Will get them from vagparts though, not the dealer.

I do not drive my car to destruction on the road. I’ve only had one moment of serious worry through brake fade because when the pedal starts to go soft I back off for a while. Castle Coombe will be my first trackday with this car so it will be interesting, but when they fade I’ll drive slowly till they come back, no worries. I think most of the wear and damage is caused when they are on the edge anyway.


Hope this helps – a little.


David

[jeffw]

David

Are you having the HiSpec kit before Castle Combe ? If not your welcome to come out with me and compare the braking mine can achieve with the HiSpec kit compared with the standard kit.

I've just ordered standard rear disc & pads from VAG-parts for £141 delivered. I'll fit these myself.