What was Monkey talking about?

[P_G]

I think I'll keep hold of the warranty for a while just in case

[scaghead]

RS3 struggled on economy next to the 135i?

Just seen a whopping 363 miles out of 55 litres which by my reckoning is 30mpg? 50% more efficient than the RS4 and fill ups are less financially painful with a smaller tank. It's going on a Dyno Dynamics dyno on Thursday so what's the guesses as to output?

Sounds like you are enjoying the five pot fella?

[neckarsulm]

I like Chris Harris generally having met him at the 'ring in 2006 with one of the first 997 GT3 RS to ever visit there with the press.
However that video of RS3 vs 135i is just a bit weird;

1) The 135i might be £10k cheaper but specced up as per RS3 standard spec and I bet it's a damn site closer.
2) The RS3 looks old inside does it? The 1 series was launched in 2004, around same time as 8P A3 and don't tell me that the ugly new face means it's a new model because it isn't - I haven't see how different the latest 1 series interior is but it can't be that different. Anyway it may look more modern but modern doesn't mean better - so many people prefer B7 A4/RS4 interior over B8 even though it looks less modern.
3) How have we ended up with the foremost motoring journalists telling us cars that oversteer are best and understeer is rubbish? I can count my oversteer moments in rear and 4WD cars on public roads on my fingers. However I have many more memories of white knuckle drives on flooded/icy/greasy roads where an edgy car would have made the experience even more stressful. Chris's media man is Neil Carey who stacked an M3 because of some diesel while at Evo, need I say more?
4) The 1 series is pug ugly - I didn't think they could make it worse than the original but they have, the 8P A3 is a beautiful piece of cohesive design and with RS3 additions it looks aggressive but not tacky, a hard balance to manage.
5) Chris's card must be marked by Audi UK press office after his awful reviews of the RS5 so he has nothing to lose

I am not biased as I don't own an Audi at the moment, I just think journalists think of a story first and then bend the facts to suit.

[P_G]

Whilst some of Harris I feel are valid Audi don't do Audi drivers many favours either. The track performance although quicker was poor largely down to the BMW having Michelins on and Audi sticking blindly to Continentals when there are better tyres out there so that is not exactly Harris' fault. If both on PSS's I suspect the RS3 would have been even quicker and the gap wider. Having come from the 4 there is a lot of roll in the 3 and subsequent understeer but nder all that it does grip, it's just not as reassuring.

But then there isn't tkaing away from the fact tht M135i is a quick car if you look at it's lap times round various tracks. The s-tronic whilst good could be geared differently to provide more top end whicb is why the BMW catches up. No getting away from the fact that the BM is fugly though.

[adsgreen]

The problem is that apart from the standing start launch te rs3 really looks like it behaves more akin to a fwd than 4wd.
Properly balanced a 4wd should really be more neutral under cornering with more power causing the car to drift rather than push on with no front end grip.

My take on the video is that Harris wasn't asking for oversteer - bit more balanced under power.
All cars initially understeer under power and rwd isn't inherently oversteer-y

[P_G]

It will do with Haldex IV given that IIRC it is 80/20 front rear bias and up to 100% front most of the time. I have read many internet debates on whether a Haldex Controller is worth having but having come from a Torsen car for me at least it is. I guess for thsoe FWD owners coming to Haldex 4WD it won't be.

[Dave_Hedgehog]

I enjoy monkeys vids a lot, but he can talk out his backside sometimes, just look at the list of cult cars he has ragged on..

But in this case his desire to become J Clarkson the second got the best of him, he was deliberately overdriving the RS3 to provoke understeer and that makes him a class one <beep>. There are plenty of vids of the RS3 on track going quickly whilst being driven smoothly.

I doubt any RS owner would argue that on a track especially with a racing driver behind the wheel that a high powered RWD car would be the car to have

But most of us arnt racing drivers and we don't live on race tracks, unfortunately

As for the Haldex, yep it's the weak link in the car but 98% of the time you won't notice a difference

The stock conti's are terrible.., why Audi why ...

What I need is the 5 pot in the RS4, that cures the problem of the torqueless V8

[Dave_Hedgehog]

As said once spec matched the 135 is very close, and it will be even closer now the 135 4*4 has been announced (not for the UK of course)

The 1 is also a lot smaller car so should be cheaper

Still a cracking bit of kit

[P_G]

So with 2k miles on the clock here is what my car is putting out power wise at present on winter tyres...





We could only do half a dozen runs before the tyres were getting hot and with 8% roller losses because of the winter rubber the figures would suggest around 351.8bhp and 347 ft/lbs of torque. When the weather gets warmer and there a few more miles on the clock I'll put the summer rubber back on and get accurate figures but I'm pretty happy with that. Even if roller losses were 5% because of the tyres that would still be 342 bhp and 338 ft/lbs vs. quoted 335bhp and 332 ft./lbs

Interestingly on the second plot you'll see the power split front to rear and it is pretty much 50/50 all the time with a couple of occassion where you see if power shifting front to rear.

[HYFR]

nice one P_G
I think these cars are putting out slightly more power than 335bhp as the stats suggest they are as fast as TTRS, yet slightly heavier ... so i think they have turn the wick up one notch on these

[neckarsulm]

Solid day of rain all over Wales where Chris Harris lives

They all go on about steering feel so surely he can feel when understeer is coming and drive up to that limit, to drive beyond it for a driver like him is deliberate and avoidable, yes front wheel drive and AWD may well understeer in extremis but it doesn't necessarily mean they are slower than RWD if driven up to the limit.

Audi Press should put some better tyres on before handing these cars out, is only the Conti approved by Audi for RS3?

[HYFR]

Got 317 miles out of last tank
Filled up and got exactly 55l in....range was on 5 miles prior to fill....

[adsgreen]

Solid day of rain all over Wales where Chris Harris lives

They all go on about steering feel so surely he can feel when understeer is coming and drive up to that limit, to drive beyond it for a driver like him is deliberate and avoidable, yes front wheel drive and AWD may well understeer in extremis but it doesn't necessarily mean they are slower than RWD if driven up to the limit.

Audi Press should put some better tyres on before handing these cars out, is only the Conti approved by Audi for RS3?

The problem is that understeer doesn't always work like that.
in rwd you can generally overcome understeer and push through it.
So understeer doesn't become the limiting factor and acts as a safety warning.
With fwd and some 4wd there's simply feck all you can do other than take off lock or reduce power.

It's not like you are approaching the limit but rather the car runs out of talent and its just... Frustrating.

That being said you don't want an oversteering monster - balance is the key.