To AMD or NOT to AMD?

2.7 V6 30v biturbo - 251bhp
2.7 V6 30v biturbo - 261bhp
Julesm
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Post by Julesm » Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:38 pm

Golfather,

So you had the Miltek fitted already and then had the car back in for a remap? Even so, I would have expected to see a slightly higher gain on the RR graphs for both torque and bhp. Your "before" graphs look very similar to mine when I had mine RR'd at AmD, mine too had 275 bhp on the "before" graph but had slightly less torque and that is without the Miltek.

But like you say it is probably worth it for the sound, the standard exhaust doesn't really have a distinctive sound :( , so I would expect the Miltek to be a vast improvement.

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Golfather
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Post by Golfather » Tue Aug 31, 2004 10:33 pm

No mate, the car was booked in for a Milltek and Remap together.
They installed the Milltek first, then took it to the rolling road booth and did the "before" remap.

I agree the Milltek may not have given much increase in power, if any. I have always been sceptical about increases of power from exhausts and air filters, as factory VAG items do a superb job on their own.
However, I'm sure the dual Milltek does allow the engine to rev freely as the revs just whip round the clock now wheras before the car felt much more hesitant.

Anyway its one less mod to do if I later decide to go for K04's ;)

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Post by Dippy » Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:32 pm

golfather,

I too have been dubious about the value of a cat-back. However your plots do seem to suggest that it may be giving 5-10 bhp more peak. Maybe the dual pipe does make a difference (I have single).

However your torque curve is somewhat different. Your before plot shows quite a lot more peak torque than expected for a stock S4. But your after plot shows less peak torque than I would have expected (more like 380).

Nevertheless discussions based on your plots are all a bit academic because each is unique where ambient temperature and what type and condition of tyres you have do make a difference.

What I can say from direct experience is that the Miltek cats increase the peaks by another 30/30 and keep the power level to the redline.
2001 Silver S4 Avant
AmD remap, APR R1 DVs, APR bipipe, Full Miltek exhaust
H&R coilovers, AWE DTS, Porsche front brakes, Short-shifter, 18" RS4 replicas
Defi-HUD boost gauge / turbo-timer (with afterrun pump modification), Phatbox

bjacks
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Post by bjacks » Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:44 pm

Dippy wrote: bjacks - yes you can diagnose many problems without a RR, but not all. Another thing is that golfather knows he has 320 HP because he has the plot. How do you know your car makes 260 HP?

With all due respect to you, if you didn't notice your old A3 was running in limp, you current S3 might only be producing 240 HP and you won't know!
Dippy, I know I had 260BHP as I've got the plot as AmD RR'd it at one of their open days :D

I didn't ever notice my A3 was down on power as it was always like that. 20 BHP is not a huge amount to notice. The sodding dealer that serviced it didn't notice either :shock:

As Dunc says, I now have an AmD tuned RS4 so I guess I believe in their workmanship :lol:

Cheers

Ben

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Post by Golich » Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:48 pm

AMD are good they clearly have extensive experience right across the Audi range, but they are expensive. My reasons for choosing AMD for my previous S4 was based on the fact that they allegedly offer a custom Map. I don't believe that to be the case based on how they can provide a map to another tuner via an email? However, as Scott explained to me he is an ex Audi trained tech. He was trained on the 2.7T S4. IMHO the rolling road before and after is about as good a way of testing your car.

It always amazed me how QST got away for so long without installing one given the money he wanted.

I take the opinion that the tuner who can actually write a map for you should be the best. (provided his maps don't blow your car up!) After all he/she knows about monitoring the ignition timing, fuelling, exhaust gas temp, torque V's rpm. To simply plug someone else's product into your car is only half the knowledge. Now its interesting who AMD has doing their maps for them now. As last I knew Geoff had left. A company is only as good as the individuals doing the work right now.

If going for a map on my RS I'd like to ask the various tuners who and how is the map produced. When comparing QST to AMD I think QST were far too expensive back in the day when he didn't have a rolling road. Also he was simply plugging MTM's chip into your car! QST know how to charge for everything, but to his credit he has amassed a considerable amount of experience and I would feel confident he is certainly up there with the best of the bunch.

Re the CAT back option is in my opinion a waste of money. As good as confirmed by Millteck. When they refused to sell me one on the basis that I would return it immediately (before it had even been out on the road if their approved supplier/tuner found less than a 5hp gain on a rolling road test. That speaks volumes to me about their product. Interestingly to was the fact that tuner didn’t recon I’d see a gain and he’d been trying to sell me one for about a year!

Regarding the apparent 275bhp before the map. There are so many reasons why your car returned 10bhp more than the published figure. Over the years I've seen so many RR results even for my own car which showed everything from 323bhp to 305bhp but the torque went from 365ftlbs to 382ftlbs respectively I couldn't tell the difference and I regularly check if my car can pull a certain speed over a fixed distance. One thing I do know is that air temp does make a seat of your pants measured difference.

O I do ramble on – sorry :?

Julesm
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Post by Julesm » Thu Sep 02, 2004 2:45 pm

Yes you do ramble! But it's worth it for the info.

I think the reason that AmD claim to do a custom map is because most of the other Tuners offer a generic map/chip. Take QST for example; they will remap the S4 using the MTM remap chip, this particular chip would have been produced after hours of testing in order to get the most efficient chip for the S4, in producing it they will alter various parameters over the standard chip but still will not go to a point where the chip will produce any problems. The MTM remap/chip is then used by various outlets as it is a "known" quantity that will deliver what is required in the form of increased power/torque/driveability.
AmD on the other hand do not simply replace the chip or flash over the current software with a generic map. From what I can gather they actually alter the parameters within the current chip, now whether they have some set parameters that they alter on every S4 I am not sure, but I would suspect so, but as a result of the first RR session they can tweak the map to suit the car. Therefore they can claim a custom remap.

Ramble over also!!

Just my theory by the way, so it could be a load of codswallop!!!

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AFAP18
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Post by AFAP18 » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:56 pm

Well Guys

Running K04s here with the custom AMD Remap.
I had some past experiences with AMDUSA. It took me a few months to get everything running smoothly, since I had to send my ECU a few times back to US.
But now the car is running great, aroung 396 BHPs and doing the 0-100 in 4,7 secs. The only problem that I currently have with the car is that I can only run 250 Kms with a full tank, without abusing on aceleration. On hard drives, I can do only 190 Kms per tank. :roll:

Maybe the mapping is rich. So, If AMD is so expensive, why don t you try MTM or Oettinger?





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WOT
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Dippy
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Post by Dippy » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:30 pm

Golich/Jules,

I write again: AmD do (or at least did for me) supply custom remaps.
2001 Silver S4 Avant
AmD remap, APR R1 DVs, APR bipipe, Full Miltek exhaust
H&R coilovers, AWE DTS, Porsche front brakes, Short-shifter, 18" RS4 replicas
Defi-HUD boost gauge / turbo-timer (with afterrun pump modification), Phatbox

Golich
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Post by Golich » Fri Sep 03, 2004 2:19 pm

Dippy,

What confuses me about AMD's claim is that they can allegedly provide a custom remap remote from the car.

Surely they are providing a generic map the same as QST, APR, Superchips etc etc.??

Cal me a cynical git, but on the basis that they must be providing a generic map for ECUs sent to them. Or emailed out. What is stopping them from installing a generic map to every car that comes through their door? It would seem that the MTM and APR etc generic maps produce the same bhp and torque figures as AMD's maps?

Dippy
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Post by Dippy » Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:16 pm

Golich,

Firstly I have never suggested that AmD offer custom remaps as standard. They don't. Yes, like the other tuners they start with a 'off-the-shelf' generic remap, and thats what 99% of the first customers for a stage 1 remap get.

However because it is their map (and yes, even though Geoff is mostly elsewhere now they do have the skills to develop maps), they can easily modify it if necessary.

A custom map is just that - specific to one car. Ideally this is based on actually measurements taken on a RR (as in my car where additional fuelling was added at the top end due the extra mods I have), but it doesn't have to be.
So if a customer asks for a remote map with special requirements such as 'limit overboost to 1.2 bar' then indeed if AmD are willing to do it, it would be a remote custom remp.
iI
That's all theoritical however. It is nearly 2 years since I had my custom remap so I am not really aware of exactly what AmD do, but it appears that technically the have moved forwards and not backwards (maybe it is just customer service that is moving backwards :()
2001 Silver S4 Avant
AmD remap, APR R1 DVs, APR bipipe, Full Miltek exhaust
H&R coilovers, AWE DTS, Porsche front brakes, Short-shifter, 18" RS4 replicas
Defi-HUD boost gauge / turbo-timer (with afterrun pump modification), Phatbox

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