Custom Re-map Recommendations

[Mr V10]

I've heard MRC or Viper are supposed to be the best in the business.

[P_G]

I have had the Revo flash done... and IMO, remapping on a normally aspirated car is a waste of time and money, not to mention it gives Audi and out on almost any warranty work... I would NOT do this again... If it were turbo'd, that would be a different thing all together...

I think your money is better spent on an exhaust (Milltek) and some good rubber (RE11 in 275)


My comments might upset many of the "tuners", as this is free money for them once the "tune" is developed...

All entitiled to opinions which is a good thing BUT: 'Flash' is the word. A generic flash not built around the characteristics of your car? Agreed a complete waste of time & money. I mean, a stock car & a modded car with the same map? WRONG! Revo maps run lean (in my experience) and can cause engine problems long term, particularly if you track it.....I've been there.

I've had remapped Audi's since 2004 ( 2 of them turbo's) and no dealer has ever refused warranty work for me.

Clearly you will get more oomph from a turbo'd car but alas, we don't have one but why not get as good as we can afford (Danny).

Sound enhancement over performance increase......is there a debate? Both together is another matter.

+1

Flashing an OEM N/A car will do little for gains but that doesn't mean don't do it at all. Unless in the last few years REVO has gone downhill, I would vouch for them but they did custom map my B6 S4 on a r/r rather than an OBD-II flash with no development time and with 200cell cats and s/s exhaust I gained approx. 41 bhp and 54 ftlbs of torque (385 and 367) on a n/a car plus 10-15% better fuel economy and a freer revving engine so it is worth it.

If my insurance allows it for little premium increase I may go down this route.

[Keith@APR]

A custom remap developed in hours while you wait will never be of better quality than a proper ECU recalibration developed over the course of weeks to months by accredited and experienced automotive engineers.

Custom remaps typically just start with a base remap that is then "turned up" on the dyno in order to show "gains" worthy of the money spent by the end user. In order to achieve these "gains", the custom tuner is forced to do something that will make him look better (generate more power) than the other custom tuner. Once you get into these power wars, each custom tuner has to one up the other and the ONLY way to make more power is to run leaner, hotter and ultimately more dangerously.

A proper ECU recalibration removes all "torque limiters" as these don't exist in technical terms to an automotive engineer. Its true there is more than one place to increase load request in order to achieve the desired load in the modern Bosch Motronic ECU's but to claim that these are "torque limiters" is just an incorrectly defined piece of nomenclature applied by some marketing guy to make you feel like you are getting more for your money.

Now, there are differences in calibration philosophy that each tuner applies and these philosophies tend to revolve around how far outside of the maximum safe limit specifications developed by the OEM and their Teir 1 suppliers the calibrator chooses to go.

Simple recalibrations compared to advanced recalibrations are a direct result of the time spent calibrating the cars.

Once you've achieved Lean Best Torque and Timing Optimization you are left with VVT adjustment and a few other knobs on a normally aspirated car to actually increase power output.

Acceleration can be further improved by recalibrating the manner in which the ecu handles achieving the requested timing angles and AFR's after gear changes and in other situations. Throttle response can be manipulated as well and a faster opening throttle plate upon driver's request will feel more responsive but does not always prove to improve acceleration. Of course there is also VMAX removal and rev limiter increases as well as launch control features.

Just my 2 pence. No offense to any custom tuners mentioned in this thread, I am sure they do great work!

[wolfgang]

I have had the Revo flash done... and IMO, remapping on a normally aspirated car is a waste of time and money, not to mention it gives Audi and out on almost any warranty work... I would NOT do this again... If it were turbo'd, that would be a different thing all together...

I think your money is better spent on an exhaust (Milltek) and some good rubber (RE11 in 275)


My comments might upset many of the "tuners", as this is free money for them once the "tune" is developed...

All entitiled to opinions which is a good thing BUT: 'Flash' is the word. A generic flash not built around the characteristics of your car? Agreed a complete waste of time & money. I mean, a stock car & a modded car with the same map? WRONG! Revo maps run lean (in my experience) and can cause engine problems long term, particularly if you track it.....I've been there.

I've had remapped Audi's since 2004 ( 2 of them turbo's) and no dealer has ever refused warranty work for me.

Clearly you will get more oomph from a turbo'd car but alas, we don't have one but why not get as good as we can afford (Danny).

Sound enhancement over performance increase......is there a debate? Both together is another matter.

+1

Flashing an OEM N/A car will do little for gains but that doesn't mean don't do it at all. Unless in the last few years REVO has gone downhill, I would vouch for them but they did custom map my B6 S4 on a r/r rather than an OBD-II flash with no development time and with 200cell cats and s/s exhaust I gained approx. 41 bhp and 54 ftlbs of torque (385 and 367) on a n/a car plus 10-15% better fuel economy and a freer revving engine so it is worth it.

If my insurance allows it for little premium increase I may go down this route.

+2

My MRC map is the second best upgrade on my car (after the Milltek). It completely changes the way the car drives and driving is a much more enjoyable experience. Plus, it's an upgrade that is used 100% of the time (like the Milltek).

One of the reasons I had a remap done was to remove the fast-idle on a cold start with SW0090. This really annoyed my neighbours as the sound was deafening early in the morning. The MRC remap quickly restores the revs to an acceptable level on a cold start so there's far less noise. Plus, the linear throttle response in standard mode makes driving the car really nice and then there's the monstrous Sport mode map. It's not the power increase that mattered to me in the long run.

[edge]

A custom remap developed in hours while you wait will never be of better quality than a proper ECU recalibration developed over the course of weeks to months by accredited and experienced automotive engineers.

Custom remaps typically just start with a base remap that is then "turned up" on the dyno in order to show "gains" worthy of the money spent by the end user. In order to achieve these "gains", the custom tuner is forced to do something that will make him look better (generate more power) than the other custom tuner. Once you get into these power wars, each custom tuner has to one up the other and the ONLY way to make more power is to run leaner, hotter and ultimately more dangerously.

A proper ECU recalibration removes all "torque limiters" as these don't exist in technical terms to an automotive engineer. Its true there is more than one place to increase load request in order to achieve the desired load in the modern Bosch Motronic ECU's but to claim that these are "torque limiters" is just an incorrectly defined piece of nomenclature applied by some marketing guy to make you feel like you are getting more for your money.

Now, there are differences in calibration philosophy that each tuner applies and these philosophies tend to revolve around how far outside of the maximum safe limit specifications developed by the OEM and their Teir 1 suppliers the calibrator chooses to go.

Simple recalibrations compared to advanced recalibrations are a direct result of the time spent calibrating the cars.

Once you've achieved Lean Best Torque and Timing Optimization you are left with VVT adjustment and a few other knobs on a normally aspirated car to actually increase power output.

Acceleration can be further improved by recalibrating the manner in which the ecu handles achieving the requested timing angles and AFR's after gear changes and in other situations. Throttle response can be manipulated as well and a faster opening throttle plate upon driver's request will feel more responsive but does not always prove to improve acceleration. Of course there is also VMAX removal and rev limiter increases as well as launch control features.

Just my 2 pence. No offense to any custom tuners mentioned in this thread, I am sure they do great work!

Sorry, my knowledge of remaps/flash is limited, does that mean that a flash would be worse off? If you have the ECU flashed its specific to another car with roughly the same spec and mods. With a custom map would at least be real-time to the limits/spec of the car on the day? You also see how its running while its being mapped on the RR.

This would be the next mod on the list for me.

[P_G]

That's fine on a standard car Keith but reality is that most remappers base their program on an OEM car and their changes to the baseline tables will not take into account a customers modification of their car, i.e is it OEM;cat-back only; sports cats; gutted cats; CAI; deflapped, supercharger etc etc. Then given our cars have normal and sport mode does the customer want a linear map on one mode and not the other, throttle limiters taken off in one and not the other etc etc. Going to a standard remapping outlet and asking them for a OBD-II flash remap invariably does not allow you to customise, going to a custom tuner does

[Keith@APR]

That's fine on a standard car Keith but reality is that most remappers base their program on an OEM car and their changes to the baseline tables will not take into account a customers modification of their car, i.e is it OEM;cat-back only; sports cats; gutted cats; CAI; deflapped, supercharger etc etc. Then given our cars have normal and sport mode does the customer want a linear map on one mode and not the other, throttle limiters taken off in one and not the other etc etc. Going to a standard remapping outlet and asking them for a OBD-II flash remap invariably does not allow you to customise, going to a custom tuner does

I certainly see your point but my counter is that the company you choose for your ECU recalibration should also be able to offer a path of progression with expertise in both the hardware and the accommodating software.

Stage 2 and beyond calibrations that accomodate for a tested and verified change in hardware over a long term R&D program are the best ways to get what you are after.

To me, if a client's request for something we don't offer has true merit and is in the best interest of the client, we will institute into our entire product line.

Its just a different way of doing it at the end of the day. You could say its the apple approach vs. the pc approach.

[nij]

My MRC map is the second best upgrade on my car (after the Milltek). It completely changes the way the car drives and driving is a much more enjoyable experience. Plus, it's an upgrade that is used 100% of the time (like the Milltek).

One of the reasons I had a remap done was to remove the fast-idle on a cold start with SW0090. This really annoyed my neighbours as the sound was deafening early in the morning. The MRC remap quickly restores the revs to an acceptable level on a cold start so there's far less noise. Plus, the linear throttle response in standard mode makes driving the car really nice and then there's the monstrous Sport mode map. It's not the power increase that mattered to me in the long run.

wolfgang, could you tell me exactly what re-map options you have had done at MRC. Like you, I'm not looking for huge improvement in BHP, which we're not going to get without a supercharger (may be later).
I'm after a re-map for the same reason as you, so it would be a great help.

[wolfgang]

My MRC map is the second best upgrade on my car (after the Milltek). It completely changes the way the car drives and driving is a much more enjoyable experience. Plus, it's an upgrade that is used 100% of the time (like the Milltek).

One of the reasons I had a remap done was to remove the fast-idle on a cold start with SW0090. This really annoyed my neighbours as the sound was deafening early in the morning. The MRC remap quickly restores the revs to an acceptable level on a cold start so there's far less noise. Plus, the linear throttle response in standard mode makes driving the car really nice and then there's the monstrous Sport mode map. It's not the power increase that mattered to me in the long run.

wolfgang, could you tell me exactly what re-map options you have had done at MRC. Like you, I'm not looking for huge improvement in BHP, which we're not going to get without a supercharger (may be later).
I'm after a re-map for the same reason as you, so it would be a great help.

Hi mate, I went for an MRC air filter and a Milltek non-res valved, all fitted by MRC as the initial upgrades. I also had issues with the Audi SW0090 update on a cold-start as it revved at 1,600RPM for too long. Because of the upgrades to the air filter and exhaust, and the long fast idle with SW0090, MRC suggested a Stage 2 Remap that dropped the idle to around 1,000RPM within a second or two of startup. I went for a nice linear map in normal mode and this made driving the car in traffic a LOT easier. I then got a very aggressive Sport mode map which, to be honest, scares me a bit! The map was tuned to Shell V-Power fuel too. The torque limiters in gears 1, 2 and 3 were removed.

My corrected torque was measured at 471Nm and corrected engine power was measured at 412PS after the remap, with just the above upgrades, which I guess isn't too bad. Hope that helps! PM me if you need any specific details like costs, etc.

[nij]

Thanks for that wolfgang,
I think I'll go down the same route as you regarding the re-map (better to keep my neighbours happy, I do come and go a lot in the early hours of the morning).
Hopefully I'll get a little extra power in the proccess.

[SKG_C63AMG]

Hi nij ive just had my car mapped by MRC and if u want a run out in to see the difference ur more than welcome, best thing ive had done in a long time

[sakimano]

All entitiled to opinions which is a good thing BUT: 'Flash' is the word. A generic flash not built around the characteristics of your car? Agreed a complete waste of time & money. I mean, a stock car & a modded car with the same map? WRONG! Revo maps run lean (in my experience) and can cause engine problems long term, particularly if you track it.....I've been there.

I've had remapped Audi's since 2004 ( 2 of them turbo's) and no dealer has ever refused warranty work for me.

Clearly you will get more oomph from a turbo'd car but alas, we don't have one but why not get as good as we can afford (Danny).

Sound enhancement over performance increase......is there a debate? Both together is another matter.

Our ECU is very adaptive and can take advantage of simple mods. Custom tunes are not necessary for simple mods like a de-cat and a catback.

This was discussed rather thoroughly on another forum when a bunch of people were disparriaging off-the-shelf tunes in favour of a custom tune from a company called EPL. It was simply not realistic to suggest that these simple bolt ons need a custom tune. no headwork or adding forced induction and the GOOD off the shelf tunes who allow the ECU to adapt and grow are just fine.

This had been the case with the B6/7 S4 4.2 tuned cars for the last 5 years. Guys with the JHM tune see massive gains (considering), and RS4 4.2 guys with the JHM tune have also seen massive gains. This is not a custom tune. I would put money on a JHM tune + full exhaust car up against a MRC or EPL custom tune + full exhaust car any day. I don't mean dyno numbers either...an actual race. Anyone got a fiver they want to potentially part with (or double)?

p.s. accidental necro bump because I was searching for something, so sorry about that.

[P_G]

Holy thread ressurection Batman!