Cleaning carbon myself (with a helping hand)

[DazN]

A good friend has just been looking at my RS4 and he thinks the carbon cleaning won't be too difficult, few hours to get the bits out of the way and then a possible good couple of hours to clean it all, same again to get it all back together again.

He's gone to get new seals from Audi and a couple of bottles of cleaner that are supposed to dissolve the carbon once we get at it.

Quite looking forward to taking it apart and seeing 1st hand what it's actually like, I might even take some pictures as we're doing it and post them here.

Wish me luck!!

Daz

[Steve_C]

Deffo for some pics please. You can see my pics here: http://forum.rs246.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=89340

[edge]

GOOD LUCK!

Some pics would be good to document the process you followed and what you found.

Assume a dyno pre and post

[Dave.B]

Where is the best place to get this done professionally - im in co durham but dont mind travelling!

How long does it normally take?

Thanks

[DazN]

I'm told around £1,000 to get it done, which is why I'm doing it myself and spending a couple of days getting my hands dirty!

[Dave.B]

£1k - I guess most of that just labour then

[PJC]

MRC quoted me approx £800

[DazN]

£1k - I guess most of that just labour then

AFAIK yes, my mate has said 2-3 hours to get it apart, 2-3 to get it back together - cleaning the parts once it's apart could take several hours depending on how bad it is. The stuff to clean is supposed to be more like treacle than carbon powder, so sounds like a bit of elbow grease is required.

Will take pics and post here when done.

[Recy_G]

MRC quoted me approx £800

Seriously? I got quoted £2200 when I called up yesterday, they also quoted £100 more to do my rear discs and pads than what Camberley Audi quoted. Maybe there was a misunderstanding over the phone, I'll ask again.

[PJC]

That's what Doug quoted me in April, might be plus vat though.

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I did see ages back a very good illustrated step by step on removing the manifold.
Failing that, Elsawin has the process very well documented too so worth a read. There are lots of fiddley bits to move out of the way and even then the manifold doesn't just lift off but needs to be lifted and turned simultaneously.
One important thing to always remember is that the manifold contains some exposed plastic actuator arms for the internal air flaps. These can a do break very easily and can not be easily replaced so often is a new manifold job. Also it's worth replacing the one way air vacuum valve under the manifold as if these fail (and they are only soppy rubber things) then it's manifold off again to get to them. Only 2 quid from an audi dealer.
Finally, make sure you don't accidentially pinch or crush any of the vacuum lines under the manifold as this causes no end of problems - audi even did it themselves for the early cars during initial manufacturing.

You need to be really careful that you don't drop any bits inside the cylinder - I believe MRC do it by soaking the closed cylinders in the solvent for a few hours and then use a Shop vacuum to hoover out all the crud so only the bare minimum if any gets in the car. Then you have to manually crank the engine to get to the remaining cylinders.

£2200 feel about the price for a inlet clean, new ported and polished de-vaned manifold (as an exchange basis), new mapping for manifold and a health check before and after on a rolling road. When I had a problem with my original manifold with the flaps sticking I decided that I'd do the above so sounds about right + plus miltek non res valved. Kinda also threw the bill out a little more as needed tyres and mot and got it all sorted at the same time.
I'm sure too that a normal inlet clean is about 800 quid.

[kay]

I was gonna actually start a new thread to ask whether any decent local performance car mechanic can easily perform a clean rather than just audi/mrc. A local guy wouldn't charge anywhere near as much. Personally I think the hrly rates for the actual elbow grease part of the process should be significantly lower than the standard hrly rates.
What cleaning agents are u boys gonna use daz?

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The problem is thus - whilst I agree that there's not as much technically involved with the actual cleaning so the only way places like MRC could lower the labour costs is to use less skilled/experienced technicians. They can't just lower the rate for the cleaning as whilst a senior technician is cleaning he's not doing other chargable work that could be billed out at a higher rate... That doesn't make commercial sense and MRC isn't a charity after all. Maybe if work coming in was in short supply but given then number of cars I see at MRC every time I've been there, demand for their services isn't something that is dropping off.

So the question comes down to this - would you prefer a couple hundred quid saving (at best) having somebody who hasn't done ten's if not hundreds of cleans or somebody who has and is intimately knowledgeable about the specific car and engine?
You also need to bear in mind that there have been IIRC at least one case of an Audi dealer technician performing a carbon clean and having bits drop in the engine causing significant internal damage. I'm sure I've read on this very forum a member effectively getting a brand new engine after such an event.
The great thing about our society is that you make your mind up and pay your money so the choice is yours.

[PJC]

A friend of mine who has built numerous race cars from the ground up would not touch the cleaning with a barge pole.

[RSKiwi]

A friend of mine who has built numerous race cars from the ground up would not touch the cleaning with a barge pole.

Any reason for this? Boredom of the task? Trickier than expected or just plain hardwork for little reward?