Straw Clutching

[bakustax]

Follow on from the "Oh fu*k" post
Got back from Baku today and had a read thru of the ATF change invoice...As Follows

Notes
Fault Code found,returned after test drive.
17125-Torque Converter Clutch Stuck off/No Power being transfered P0741- Intermittent.

Not looking good...took the car out...behaving well for 50 miles...gave the beans a couple of times and all was good.
I know I'm probably looking at a new box.......but read thru a lot on here and noticed that Bam Bam had posted on changing the BLS and it had cleared the code....the thread seemed to peter out.........any feedback on this?
Next question...when do you commit to the big bill?...keep driving and hope for the best?...or is a catastrophic failure....in the post?

[bilko1]

17125/P0741/001857 - Torque Converter Clutch: Stuck OFF / No Power being transferred

Possible Causes
Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Level not OK
Transmission Sealing faulty
Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) dirty
Torque Converter faulty or incorrect Torque Converter installed
Solenoid Valve 7 (N94)/Pressure Regulating Valve 4 (N218) faulty
Torque Converter Pressure Valve faulty
Valve for Torque Converter Clutch faulty
Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch faulty/worn out

Possible Solutions
Check Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Level
Check Transmission Sealing
Check Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Check Torque Converter
Check Solenoid Valve 7 (N94)/Pressure Regulating Valve 4 (N218)
Check Torque Converter Pressure Valve
Check Valve for Torque Converter Clutch
Check Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch

Sorry but it looks like it's your turn for the big bill , just changing the torque converter will fix it but chances are the transmission will fail soon after. Alot of the Yanks just change the converter and seem to get away with it but imho it's false economy but they can get the tranny out in a couple of hours.

[JCviggen]

Personally I think you can probably drive it for a long time without the box failing in a big way. If not for the code I think many people (who aren't the enthusiasts we are) would not even notice the subtle difference of the lock-up clutch not working. Actually it will work after a restart as long as you don't make it slip. So if you avoid big torque when it's locked up you can drive with it reasonably well. It's far from ideal of course...but you can delay the big bill for a while if you want to.

[Shoppinit]

If there was a problem with the BLS you'd have a DTC for this also.

[bam_bam]

Keep driving unless it's slamming into gear... but start saving - it's inevitable.

[Shoppinit]

start saving - it's inevitable.

You should do this as soon as you buy an RS6

Problem is, having an RS6 makes it difficult to save!

[bakustax]

Thanks Guys
I took her out this aftenoon and "went for it" on a few occasions....no dramas.
I have a slush funds set away for the slush box when it dies.... whenever that may be....
An interesting post from JC
"Personally I think you can probably drive it for a long time without the box failing in a big way."
I've had the car for a year now 9,000 miles...and this is the first time it's been on the Vagcom.....now begining to wonder if I bought it with the fault?
I'll carry on enjoying it and see how much longer I can get out of the box

[JCviggen]

I think that's pretty much what happened to me. Bought a car, had it checked by a dealer, drove it for a while and after I bought Vagcom 1500 miles or so later the fault was there. It's not very apparent whilst driving if you don't know better. They used to make TC's without lock-up clutch in the older days, it's mostly there for fuel economy and not a critical component. However the bits of worn clutch that get into the ATF don't do it any good in the longer run.

[MoRS6+]

start saving - it's inevitable.

You should do this as soon as you buy an RS6

Problem is, having an RS6 makes it difficult to save!

lol, +1

Every week I 'save up' for a full tank of petrol

[grizz]

The seal in the Tc fails , it needs removing and it can be repaired .

[HYFR]

start saving - it's inevitable.

You should do this as soon as you buy an RS6

Problem is, having an RS6 makes it difficult to save!

quote of the month

Bam_Bam - we got a July thread ?

[ElevenSec]

Save up some extra Money and do a complete Rebuild. Its the only way you'll have piece of mind. Did a TC and Valve body on mine only to have the Clutches let loose one month later resulting in major slipping. So out came the Motor and Gearbox again. This time having the Box completely rebuilt. So save yourself time and money have it done right the first time around. I found out the hard way...............

[bakustax]

The seal in the Tc fails , it needs removing and it can be repaired .

And that's the route I'll be taking....I've done a bit of searching and it looks like the TC Repair with up-graded parts is the best course of action....
It would appear a new box only comes with a 2 year warrenty.... which is about the time the first reported Torque Converter failures occured....the first time round....i.e. the new box may have sub-standard TC seals in it..... It's a worry that Audi only give a 2 year warrenty to something that is effectivly being replaced due to a a known weakness in the T.C internal seal of the original box by ....by the sounds of it........ something they only feel confident in lasting the 2 year warrenty period!!..........As it's a well reported failing of the box I would have assumed a replacement box would be accompanied by a 5 year 100K warrenty as a standard.

I had a search on the VWVortex site on Phaetons...the W12 employ's the same 5 spd gearbox....and there are quite a few tales of woe.....with exactly same failure mode...couple of slips...owner....visits the garage...VAGCOM has a look....17125 comes up.... new torque convertor advised....... see attached.
One thing it does caution on is the refitting of the overhauled Torque Converter.......... if it is incorrectly refitted it will take the gearbox out very soon after......which I have read happening to some cars on here.

As JC says a couple of posts back.....the change in the gearbox function is not that apparent..... and a couple of the Phaeton owners were told it was nothing to worry about and keep on driving it...........the seal failure looks to take the lock-up clutch out of action and over stress the main clutch to the point where bits of clutch screw something else up............VW recommend changing the ATF every 20 K.....which is a far cry from the "ATF is for life"...
Are they recommending these frequent ATF chages in some sort of effort to prelong the life of the faulty box....which if you dont know better drives ok....and save on warrenty claims....a lot of the yanks seem to have VW Dealer Warrenty's......or am I being overly hard on VAG.

Can anybody recommend a good gearbox specialist in the North East of Scotland?

[bilko1]

Audi give you a 2 year warranty on a gearbox that ZF make, buy it from ZF and you only get a 1 year warranty. My gearbox is fine atm but i lnow it's only a matter of time so i have started proceedings to get an ACE upgraded torque converter sent over from the states.

[posterboyj]

Audi give you a 2 year warranty on a gearbox that ZF make, buy it from ZF and you only get a 1 year warranty. My gearbox is fine atm but i lnow it's only a matter of time so i have started proceedings to get an ACE upgraded torque converter sent over from the states.

Is this ace torque converter proven? ?