B6 / B7 S4 Prospective Owner

[EcurieEcosse]

Hi Guys

I am on the look out for a B6 or B7 S4 Avant.

I did have my heart set on a C5 RS6 after a long term love affair, but I took the fear after looking at the potential costs for cambelt changes, brake pads and discs, suspension etc.

Are there any nasty running costs associated with the B6 or B7, like the cambelt for example, or are the costs pallatable compared to the RS6? (I did do a search for a buyer's guide but couldn't find one).

Also, is the B7 massively different / better to the B6, or is it more of a facelift?

Many thanks

[Ian_C]

RS6 makes S4 look cheap to run by comparison!! I was sorely tempted by an RS6, but in the end I'm glad I didn't. More expensive to purchase, and as mentioned here constantly, buying a cheap one will cost twice as much as you 'save' in the long run! The S4 does everything I want, plenty big enough for my needs, handles better, plus it's manual not automatic.

Starting with the three things you list:

• Cambelt
  Brake pads and discs
  Suspension

Cambelt - S4 B6 and B7 have camchains at the back of the engine rather than cambelt at the front - the only way it fits in the engine bay. Known to rattle from cold start up, but regular oil changes are the key.
RS6 cambelt every 40k over a grand for belts and necessary extras water pump etc.

Brake discs and pads on the S4 are standard sizes and you can order them yourself off the internet for the various suppliers. I just bought Pagid rear discs for £100 and Lucas Mintex rear pads for £35. My B6 rear pads for example are common across VAG vehicles, including VW Transporter I am told!
RS6 not that simple, many times the cost.

Suspension - S4 no issues with old style dampers and springs. Most likely cause for concern is rear anti roll bar bushes can go, mot failure, but cheap to replace, thicker RS4 roll bar a popular upgrade at this point.
RS6 DRC is a nightmare and cost approx £1500 to strip and fit Bilstein / KWV3 / H&R.

Gearbox - got flamed for saying it on here the other day, but the manual S4 clutch / dual mass fly wheel won’t last forever and worth budgeting if you are buying a car with 60-70-80k plus on the clock. Circa 2k at Audi, main cost is the labour (eight hours from memory) and the flywheel.
RS6 – tiptronic gearbox is a weakness, especially if abused and / or engine tuned, have been know to fail and need rebuild.

B7 is very refined, lots of small improvements it would seem over the B6, was very impressed by a friends B7 2.0 TFSI quattro S line. However I still prefer the look of the B6 S4, the steering wheel being round not square, simple exhaust not quads etc. Personal preference, but I wasn't inclined to pay a bit extra for a B7 considering there is no increase in power or torque.

Other S4 issues - starter motor is an 'off the Audi parts shelf' item and not V8 specific - again won't last forever. Additional pair of rads in the front corners can corrode and weep coolant, £600-700 to replace. Certainly worth checking if buying privately, or making sure a dealer will honour these if they go under warranty period (ie. if they leak are they are excluded as weak and tear?)

FASH or FSH from respected specialists such as Unit 20, MRC, APS or QST is not a guarantee but a good sign the car has been looked after. People trying to run these on the cheap is a bad sign. General agreement is Audi longlife intervals of 20k are avoided. Mine has FASH with the fifth AVS completed at 65k just before I bought it, hence oil [on average] every 11k. Some have been put on yearly fixed interval which is even better still. However, when looking to buy, I saw several that had been 20k / 2.5 years between services / since last service. Scary to think there are 2003 cars with 10k more than mine on the clock out there that will have only had 3 services under Audis own AVS guidelines (service every 20k / 2 years).

Ian

[kidyamlo]

Hi, no belt but twin chain driven at the back which tends to rattle from time to time (check all the threads to see how many people have that - solution is usually changing oil more often than you ordinarily might, or going for a different viscosity in the first place). Audi claim it's a "characteristic" of the engine, but it is annoying. Think it's a bitch of an engine-out job to change if you ever need new chains too. I have a B6 Avant (chosen because I prefer the body style over the B7, and it was also the top-of-the range at the time with no B6 RS4 as you likely know - that makes it a bit more special in my opinion, but you may not be bothered by that kind of thing). From what I understand, the B7 is, for all intents and purposes, basically the same car with a different skin... inside you'll be hard pushed to spot the difference. B7 owners will doubtless list the differences for you. Coil packs may be an issue, and the clutch may become one as the car approaches 70,000... but then depends on your driving (or previous owner's driving!). Mine is starting to slip at just over 50,000 and I don't abuse it. I had a B7 RS4 a while back, also with clutch problems (changed twice in addition to usual vacuum hose upgrade). Don't have much faith in Audi clutches, but could just be my bad luck. Also, there is potential for aux rads to leak at some point. Again, check out the other threads. That's all from the top of my head... I'm sure there's more, but I wouldn't imagine any more issues than your average big-engined estate of this age!

[kidyamlo]

Ian C beat me too it, and far more comprehensively!

[Ian_C]

Glad to see we agree on clutches, although yours has to be one of the earliest I have heard about? Mine was done at 64k, again just before I bought it. Yes, plenty of RS4s have failed well before 50k though.

How could I forget coil packs!! Well I've not had one go [yet!] and haven't suffered it on a previous Audi (family Sportback is a TDi).

Ian

[EcurieEcosse]

Wow! May thanks for taking the time to reply, guys, this is incredibly helpful.

I am very relieved by your responses, and my search for an S4 will begin in earnest. I am not too fussed if it is a B6 or a B7, but I am definitely looking for an Avant, preferably an auto (but I would take a manual) and it must be in Nogaro Blue (so I can pay homage to the RS2).

I will keep you posted with my progress.

[spikeyboy101]

If its a Noggy Blue your after then your probably need to go with a B6 as they switched to Sprint blue for the B7.

I have had my B6 S4 for 7 years now and it just done 67,000 miles, had no major issues (touch wood) except the aux rad going when it was 2 1/2 years old - changed under warranty.

Other small items that mines had are - front lower suspension arms needed replacing due to wear (approx £380), Leaking Head Gasket (Apprx £130 per side). Door rubber seals squeeking, although a rub down with silican spray sorts this short term.

The S4 does go through front tires quite quickly - wears the side edges.

Only other item is the OEM Brake Discs (or rotors) im now on my 3rd set - seems to go through the fronts every 30,000 miles, so check for any bad lipping. I changed to ESC floating, grooved, drilled, lightweight dics and will see how they fair


Appart from that a cracking motor, especially if you do the milltek and ecu upgrades.

[PJS4Avant]

hi all,

I fully agree with Ian C, I have a B6 S4 with 66K miles bought from Fontain's nearly 2 years ago at 46K miles and so far have had all the B6 S4's weaknesses come my way. After a few months ownership I had a starting issue which ended up being a starter motor which Fontain's warranty didn't cover fully. Soon after both aux rads started leaking and the warranty didn't pay. Cheers. This was particularly painfull as I specifically asked Fontain to check the rads at the time of sale as i knew they were a weakness, the first time I was underneath the car (about 2K miles later) it was clear they were leaking. Then in Dec 2010 I got a vibration which ended up being the DMFW, changed the clutch and slave cylinder at the same time which means in less than 2 years I'm in for best part of £2.5k.

My advice would be to buy privately with a specialist inspection and then budget for the known issues. Don't bother paying the specialist dealers inflated prices only to be let down by very poor warranty/service and picking up the bill yourself.

That said the S4 is an awesome car and with no expense spared it continues to be! I love it.

Cheers
PJ

[cfoster]

If you change your mind from Noggy blue i'm in two minds whether to sell mine..... ! Oddly enough bought from this forum!!



Chris

[spikeyboy101]

Is that a respray of wrap ?

Next question is how did you change the chrome for the window and grill trim to black ?

[kidyamlo]

I would imagine it's all wrapped, including trim. Looks pretty swish though... not usually a fan of satin black wraps (mainly because it seems to be the default choice of every other vaguely sporty merc coupe driver). Back on track, as spikeyboy101 above states... head gasket... me too, forgot about that. Bottom line is that unless you are lucky, you're *potentially* going to be in for at least a few grand over three or four years of ownership at this mileage. You're buying at the (vehicle) age where previous owners have probably twigged that unless they pass the car on, something or other will give up the ghost, and it's not like the majority of S4 owners have been driving to conserve fuel. If you have the means to swallow the potential expenditure, it's a great car and you'll get lots of enjoyment out of it, especially with the usual mods.

[cfoster]

yes its a wrap, wouldnt dare paint the car!! Second colour its gone, I previously had it wrapped white!!

As for the chrome trim that has been painted....

[spikeyboy101]

Interesting.

Just curious what is the cost to wrap the car and where did you get it done ?

How does the wrap hold up over time ? does it start to peel ? any special washing needed ? can you still wax as normal ?

[DJSF1966]

How could I forget coil packs!! Well I've not had one go [yet!] and haven't suffered it on a previous Audi (family Sportback is a TDi).

Ian[/quote]

I was at my local Audi Main Dealer towards the end of last year for a diagnostic. Out of the blue they told me that they were going to check my coil packs to see if they were "the substandard ones". They stated that while this wasn't a formal recall, the work would be done as if under warranty (my B6 is 2004, and is independantly serviced, so I'm due no goodwill from Audi). They replaced 7 out of the 8, completely free of charge! Needless to say I was surprised, and not unhappy! Perhaps worth asking your local Main Dealer if your coil packs haven't already been changed?

[gottanS]

My B7 S4 recently had a service and they changed all 8, never had any problems, same thing happened on my B5 A4, they changed all them as well FOC.

Wonder when they will plan in the 3rd recall, you would have thought they would have learn't something from the 1st recall but apparently not.