Noble M400 as a track toy?

[fiberoptic]

Wanted to get a track car for a while now, but don't want to track my RS4.

GT3 RS is my dream track toy, but can't afford it and it probably will be to much of a car for me as I have never tracked before and only do about 4000 miles a year

May be Noble M400? Still isn't cheap and faster than GT3 RS ( at least on paper), but much cheaper the GT3.

Sensible option would be Caterham, but don't really like them.

Anyone knows much about the M400's? What are they like to live with? Expensive to run? Hard to find a place that will know the car and will be able to maintain/service it properly?

[xyber]

Engines are 3.0L Ford Duratecs from a Mondeo with 2 turbos bolted on so that should be easy enough

[2manytoys]

I'd say look at the performance aftermarket support too. I race a Subaru STI and the good thing about the Subaru is that you can get almost anything for it. There are options for ECU's, sumps, radiators, turbo's and most important suspension. The last thing you want to find out is; you can't make a change to the car to suit the track better, or it's going to cost waaaay too much to bother with it.

Either way, good luck and take heaps of video when you have one.

Here's some of my race car in a reverse grid race: http://vimeo.com/10372616

[adsgreen]

I've ran track toys for years now and here's my 2p

The noble is a beast esp the m400 but it's a very unforgiving beast. No ABS/TCS/SCS makes for a great raw driving experience but it has quite a crude turbo setup and the m400 suffers from a few laggy flat spots which can catch you out. Being mid mounted it can be tricky to hold if you go near the edge of the performance envelope.
I don't know you so please don't be offended, but how much experience do you have of mid mounted rear drive cars? If you're comfortable with it then cool but if releatively new then at best you're not going to enjoy it as you'll never get near the car's limits and at worst it you'll be picking bits out of the tyre wall. I'm a little concerned when you say the GT3 may be too much for you and then jumping towards the noble. Again, please don't be aoffended - I'm not trying to criticise just offer advice

The other pain bits is that no boot so everything has to go in the pax seat (asusming you are driving to the track and not trailering). Once you start loading the essentials for a trackday there's not much comfort space even if you don't have a passenger.

If you are tracking any car lots then unles you really don't want to or don't have the facilities I'd advise doing the general servicing yourself.

Running wise they are pretty sound mechanically. Was a recall for the suspension as it could fail so check thats all sorted. The one thing is if you do get one don't bend it - the clams are made in south africa and even when they were in full scale production (for Noble) there was an average of six months lead time. They can be repaired by any decent fibreglass shop as long as they are not totally wrecked.

For most drivers I would gamble and say they would be faster on most tracks with a GT3 as the handling is just a little better with no turbo to factor in. In a straight line it's pretty close - sure the noble is much quicker off the line but once up to track speed there isn't much in it. However the running costs of a GT3 are quite high when tracked compared to the noble...

To give better advice though I think more info is required:
- what kind of trackdays are you looking at? (airfields, tracks or both)
- What would be your main circuit?
- How experienced are you at track driving?
- Are you going to trailer the car or self drive to the track?
- Budget?

[adsgreen]

I'm biassed towards the marque but if you want something hot, rwd and mid mounted then something like this is just the ticket.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1923810.htm

A bit of stealth (nobody would be expecting 400bhp/ton), cheap to run (30mpg+ easy and cheap tax), insurance is not difficult and bloody quick on track. Also doesn't burn through consumables like heavier cars. Oh, and has a usable boot

[Nib]

I'm biassed towards the marque but if you want something hot, rwd and mid mounted then something like this is just the ticket.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1923810.htm

A bit of stealth (nobody would be expecting 400bhp/ton), cheap to run (30mpg+ easy and cheap tax), insurance is not difficult and bloody quick on track. Also doesn't burn through consumables like heavier cars. Oh, and has a usable boot

Sounds like an ideal first track car

For the first season I'd be inclined to go for something a little less powerful that can be steered on the throttle at slightly lower speeds. This sounds great for when you've really got the hang of track days.

Those with the biggest grins are not always the fastest......

[adsgreen]

Absolutely - a standard 120bhp Elise can be incredibly fun. Had one for ages and although ever lotus I had after that was faster (in some case silly fast) you could always go back to the first one and get a big grin.

Hell John palmer use mk1 mx5's for good reason. You get to learn car control without being overloaded by high speed. One of my friends bought a mk1 mr2 for 500 quid and had more fun tracking that then his 911 (cheaper than a set of rear tyres too)

[xyber]

There an Elise near me with a turbo'd vauxhall redtop engine that's an absolute animal. I'd love one

[sonny]

Fiberoptic, slightly deviating away from topic but would you consider Radical? the SR3 is a great entry level car, I considered one myself.

http://www.radicalsportscars.com/

[adsgreen]

Bleugh - Only go radical if you are a happy spending as much time being a grease monkey as a driver.
They are incredibly fragile to the point you have to treat them like a race car rather than a track one.

Also if you are new to circuit driving then you will get caught out by how much the aero affects these cars. Drive them slowly and they are a pig - you need to get them up to a decent speed which is generally much faster than anything else so on normal days you spend half the time on track waiting to be waved through by slower traffic. Get one on a radical only day then its fine but then you'll be surrounded by very very quick car/driver combos so you need to be on your toes.

In short, I wouldn't touch a radical with a barge pole as an entry car. Experienced racer with deep pockets - absolutely. It's one of only two cars I've ever got serious neck strain from due to cornering g (the other was a F1 car )

[fiberoptic]

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm a little concerned when you say the GT3 may be too much for you and then jumping towards the noble. Again, please don't be aoffended - I'm not trying to criticise just offer advice

adsgreen, you're right, the Noble M400 will be way to much of a car for me. I was just getting carried away and looking for some kind of a beast.
It's hard to stay sensible.

The Elise is the one I forgot about. Good idea, i think. Cheap in comparison.

Fiberoptic, slightly deviating away from topic but would you consider Radical? the SR3 is a great entry level car, I considered one myself.

Looked at Radicals, nice, but i'll have to drive it to the race track and back. If they need to be driven fast for better handling then probably not for me just yet.

[sonny]

Bleugh - Only go radical if you are a happy spending as much time being a grease monkey as a driver.
They are incredibly fragile to the point you have to treat them like a race car rather than a track one.

Also if you are new to circuit driving then you will get caught out by how much the aero affects these cars. Drive them slowly and they are a pig - you need to get them up to a decent speed which is generally much faster than anything else so on normal days you spend half the time on track waiting to be waved through by slower traffic. Get one on a radical only day then its fine but then you'll be surrounded by very very quick car/driver combos so you need to be on your toes.

In short, I wouldn't touch a radical with a barge pole as an entry car. Experienced racer with deep pockets - absolutely. It's one of only two cars I've ever got serious neck strain from due to cornering g (the other was a F1 car )

Will bare that in mind.

[adsgreen]

Thanks for the feedback.

The Elise is the one I forgot about. Good idea, i think. Cheap in comparison.

A nice elise is a perfect track car and the one I posted was pretty much modified as they come. If you get a "normal" one you can get a good example for 12-15k and at least are fun to drive with the roof off.

Still have to treat them with respect as no real drivers aids and too much right foot or agressive driving will spin one and they are buggers to catch when you're not ready. The crash protection is better than you get in most cars - tough little beasties.

But as a second/track car they tick all the boxes.

[SR71]

Last time I was at the track there was a turbocharged Toyota Starlet - 200hp in a 800kg car or something daft like that - that was circulating as fast as me in a B7.

The track just didn't allow for the power of the B7 to make any ground getting away from him.

We were both laughing about how much money you don't need to have fun at the track.

[sonny]

The track just didn't allow for the power of the B7 to make any ground getting away from him.

We were both laughing about how much money you don't need to have fun at the track.

+1 there matey