munched engine...ouch! not for the faint of heart

[philipwalker]

A slightly modified quote...

"never in the field of human conflict has so much been said by so few"

Sorry but the quality of threads of late are spoiling Rs246.

[HYFR]

Sorry but the quality of threads of late are spoiling Rs246.

not necessarily...

RS246 is fine

Its just 'certain' threads

I dont even bother to read 'these' threads anymore as I can only imagine how they turn out, with the usual suspects I expect

I just enjoy the other threads / forums

[P_G]

I hazard a guess every single RS4 that has been opened up here in the UK suffers from "excessive" carbon deposition, which unless you have been exposed to the issue before, has been a significant surprise to the owner concerned.

So what is the definition of "excessive" in your statement SR71? Excessive to you may be normal to an Audi engineer. Have you asked them for a definition?

In reality as much as you criticise Arthur for his often strong views and assertions you are doing roughly the same to a degree.

I would agree that if I did not know the workings of the DI engine as I do now if I had opened up my engine (and I have not been in a habit of doing so since I was ttinkering with Nova SRi's) then I would as anyone would without being armed with information beforehand be surprised.

So lets all stick to what you finally suggested and rather than the hyperbole wait for Audi to furnish us with its considered view on this or until such times as someone, whether it be Arthur, you or anyone else is given an answer by Audi.

[ArthurPE]

I dismiss unsubstantiated rubbish

so I'm ignorant? nice

I don't think Audi per se can feel 'embrrassed', it's a fictional entity, not one capable of feeling emotion

for the physics involved, only the basics are needed...it's not rocket science...btw Apollo 13 flew back from the moon using a stopwatch and slide rule...the basics will get you to over 95% of the way...that's close enough...

it can't be defined?
sure it can, and it has, by me and others, numerous times...you choose to ignor it..
it is you who said Bernoulli has nothing to do with 'lift'
it's not as complicated as you make it...
perhaps that is why you don't understand it...
I know we like to complicate issues with supersonic flow mumbo jumbo, but actually it's very slow, and the pressures small (14.7 psi or less)
it is a very easy first order system...that's it, that's all

what is 'excessive'? it doesn't hamper power, efficiency, longevity
so I guess one man's 'excessive' is an excuse for a crusade...
based on rumor, the internet and disgruntled owners
that's sound science

Audi has commented:
it is not an issue
read the posts about the engine failure, they said it was not deposits
but oil related...

perhaps if you ASK Audi like I have, they will comment, but your approach is to rant & vent on the internet which won't accomplish a dman thing...ASK them! perhaps that is why I know more than you...I ASK questions, I don't take internet postings by angry, faceless owners as gospel..

never said I was Audi's 'conduit', but I have, and will continue to communicate with them when I see folks making ridiculous claims...
in order to establish truth, something severly lacking around here lately...

bunch of crusaders on a witch hunt with nothing better to do and absolutely no understanding of the systems involved, or the evidence that abounds...

it is not an issue
it is your understanding that is the issue
that is ok, it's ok to be wrong, and you have admitted your ignorance...and apparently I am also, according to you...it's ok, SIMmer down...relax, it really doesn't matter...don't blow a gasket, loit's only a car...one you don't even own...lol

The problem is that because you utterly dismiss anything that doesn't fit your theory with a few "back of the envelope" calculations your credibility is severely lacking....not to mention your manner has pi**ed off people all over the world...

Neither, will you admit your ignorance, although you are quite quick to point out everybody elses.

Its, frankly, embarassing to Audi because Audi didn't design the RS4 on the back of an envelope.

Your analysis cannot tell us anything about how spray patterns, internal aerodynamics, piston geometry, intake/manifold geometry, combustion etc etc are compromised by carbon buildup.

In fact it can tell us nothing about the any of the important effects that govern the whole bloody phenomena.

Right back at you...

Of course you can hold your own opinion, but your analyses is neither controlled nor anymore valid than anybody elses. The sooner you state that, the better off everyone will be.

Right back at you...

No one is claiming they are smarter than anyone...

I am quite happy to admit my ignorance. Are you?

But anyone would think, if they listened to you, that Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals by Heywood didn't really need 915 pages, just a few formulas from the WWW.

I hazard a guess every single RS4 that has been opened up here in the UK suffers from "excessive" carbon deposition, which unless you have been exposed to the issue before, has been a significant surprise to the owner concerned.

You may or may not believe that affects performance. Who cares?

What is needed is for Audi to comment.

Not you Arthur, but Audi.

And you are not Audi's conduit to the resolution of this issue.

Honk. Honk.

[SR71]

it's not as complicated as you make it...
perhaps that is why you don't understand it...

Maybe you stick with the simple stuff for a reason?

Hell, you don't even use capitals or punctuation.

Now P_G......

So what is the definition of "excessive" in your statement SR71? Excessive to you may be normal to an Audi engineer. Have you asked them for a definition?

More than a non-DI engine. Why is it acceptable in a DI engine and not a non-DI one?

In reality as much as you criticise Arthur for his often strong views and assertions you are doing roughly the same to a degree.

All I am asserting is that Art has no right to be as dogmatic as he is (well no more than the rest of us) regards his own conclusions....unless Art is Audi??????

As for his remaining diatribe, he forgets that I did write to Audi about the issue and discussed the matter with at least two individuals from the Tech Department.

The rest of his post seems intent on preventing me from pointing out that, as he is not Audi, his claims need not be considered as such.

All I am interested in is Audi's comment, nothing more, nothing less...

All good fun.

[2manytoys]

Audi IS replacing the engine under warranty, and I'm still not convinced it should be, either becasue of misuse, tampering by non-Audi shops, used car status or time expiration...

don't crack the champagne yet, lol
who says it's a done deal
especially after the stuff he's been posting

Unbelieveable. Audi only told me yesterday afternoon that a short-motor will be ordered. You seem to know more about my car than I do.

I find it shameful that you a campaining that a person on the otherside of the world shouldn't get a replacement engine because he thinks it's caused by carbon, and posts pictures showing carbon.

The focus on this from you, and the interaction you have with Audi, suggests this is a concern and that maybe Audi are simply trying to delay and disrupt information until a real fix is found. A lot of engines are DI, so they have a lot of money at stake here.

On the subject of you. I'll be checking every post you make, and if I feel it necessary to enlighten people that you interact with Audi on a level that may not be in their best interest I'll be posting and letting them know.

[ArthurPE]

you said they told a week ago or longer, when the engine was removed, that they were replacing it?

I'm not 'campaigning' for anything other than accurate knowledge of what is/has transpired...
we have your side, I want theirs...is that so wrong?

you think Audi is 'hiding' something?
or trying to do so until they can fix a non-existent problem?

trust me, I send them links to the posts, they do read them...
this way they can see for theirselves without interpretation or filtering...

they take this seriously, the internet is viral and implications that all engines will fail (since all have 'excessive deposits') because someone starts a thread saying their engine was destroyed by valve deposits scoring the cylinder and another that deposits lost 75 HP, then times his car, logs the operating parameters, and everything is hunky-dory, is a reason for them to get involved...
I sent them YOUR words, not mine...
this is about YOU and what you claim...
don't shoot the messanger...

this can be discerned by them contacting Audi Australia within a day of my contacting them...

obviously they will read everything I write AND that you write...
they are not morons, as some seem to believe...
then again, I'm not claiming that deposits destroyed my engine on the internet...

Unbelieveable. Audi only told me yesterday afternoon that a short-motor will be ordered. You seem to know more about my car than I do.

I find it shameful that you a campaining that a person on the otherside of the world shouldn't get a replacement engine because he thinks it's caused by carbon, and posts pictures showing carbon.

The focus on this from you, and the interaction you have with Audi, suggests this is a concern and that maybe Audi are simply trying to delay and disrupt information until a real fix is found. A lot of engines are DI, so they have a lot of money at stake here.

On the subject of you. I'll be checking every post you make, and if I feel it necessary to enlighten people that you interact with Audi on a level that may not be in their best interest I'll be posting and letting them know.

[P_G]

Now P_G......

So what is the definition of "excessive" in your statement SR71? Excessive to you may be normal to an Audi engineer. Have you asked them for a definition?

More than a non-DI engine. Why is it acceptable in a DI engine and not a non-DI one?

Because it is a recognised by-product by design? Much like pharmaceutical drugs for an exacting analogy, they have contra-inidications but the benefits far outweigh the contra-indications.

It's not like they designed it and didn't know that would happen, othersie I suspect when they opened up a few there would be a mass recall. Almost like comparing cod 'n' chips with Daddies Sauce with a nice piece of Monkfish from Zilli Fish? So in my eyes at least your definition of 'excessive' is a little unjust.

I agree with the last point you make however and equally welcome Audi's official comment; until an answer is provided by Audi on their position conjecture gets us nowehere.

[ollys]

you said they told a week ago or longer, when the engine was removed, that they were replacing it?

I'm not 'campaigning' for anything other than accurate knowledge of what is/has transpired...
we have your side, I want theirs...is that so wrong?

you think Audi is 'hiding' something?
or trying to do so until they can fix a non-existent problem?

trust me, I send them links to the posts, they do read them...
this way they can see for theirselves without interpretation or filtering...

they take this seriously, the internet is viral and implications that all engines will fail (since all have 'excessive deposits') because someone starts a thread saying their engine was destroyed by valve deposits scoring the cylinder and another that deposits lost 75 HP, then times his car, logs the operating parameters, and everything is hunky-dory, is a reason for them to get involved...
I sent them YOUR words, not mine...
this is about YOU and what you claim...
don't shoot the messanger...

this can be discerned by them contacting Audi Australia within a day of my contacting them...

obviously they will read everything I write AND that you write...
they are not morons, as some seem to believe...
then again, I'm not claiming that deposits destroyed my engine on the internet...

Unbelieveable. Audi only told me yesterday afternoon that a short-motor will be ordered. You seem to know more about my car than I do.

I find it shameful that you a campaining that a person on the otherside of the world shouldn't get a replacement engine because he thinks it's caused by carbon, and posts pictures showing carbon.

The focus on this from you, and the interaction you have with Audi, suggests this is a concern and that maybe Audi are simply trying to delay and disrupt information until a real fix is found. A lot of engines are DI, so they have a lot of money at stake here.

On the subject of you. I'll be checking every post you make, and if I feel it necessary to enlighten people that you interact with Audi on a level that may not be in their best interest I'll be posting and letting them know.

Sweet Jesus Arthur - WHY are you doing this? Are you some sort of Audi fanboy vigilante - bringing to audi's attention every naysayer who dares contradict the official line? No doubt you will claim that you are just doing this out of the altruistic goodness of your heart, becasue you crave 'information' or 'truth' and that its all part of your 'own research'.

It's like 1984 round here - but I guess we could all be part of the spying team - Hell I'm off to send an email with links of threads to Audi......to alert them....but waitl - who do I sent it to (the receptionist at Basingstoke Audi perhaps? - maybe Jeremy what'shisface: he's bound to have time to read some rambling emails from a random internet punter like me! NO wait I have a better idea - Arthur can you give me the name of your contact at Audi? - I need to alert him.....

By the way Arthur do you acutally know what defamation means - I mean the legal test to establish liability (you may answer US or English law up to you)?

[P_G]

ollys, with the greatest of repsect, what has your last post got to do with the OP subject matter or finding a solution to why it happened?

Everyone keep it on subject please otherwise we end up entering page 15 of "rambling bollocks".

[ollys]

ollys, with the greatest of repsect, what has your last post got to do with the OP subject matter or finding a solution to why it happened?

Everyone keep it on subject please otherwise we end up entering page 15 of "rambling bollocks".

sorry you're right - just re read my last post and regret it deeply

I'll leave you guys to find the solution..... good luck

Olly

[2manytoys]

I wont be helping anymore. It looks like misquoting by Arthur has actually made it's way to Audi Germany, then Audi Australia and finally the dealer. This is all I can say at this stage other than to say Arthur has succeeded in stopping the flow of information.

Good luck rs246, you wont see me much around here from now on. Maybe you should take note who uses your website and what is going on.

[Sims]

ollys, with the greatest of repsect, what has your last post got to do with the OP subject matter or finding a solution to why it happened?

Everyone keep it on subject please otherwise we end up entering page 15 of "rambling bollocks".

sorry you're right - just re read my last post and regret it deeply

I'll leave you guys to find the solution..... good luck

Olly

Ironic. Olly, it's a pity you may not be contributing on this, but do hope you will reconsider.

[Sims]

I wont be helping anymore. It looks like misquoting by Arthur has actually made it's way to Audi Germany, then Audi Australia and finally the dealer. This is all I can say at this stage other than to say Arthur has succeeded in stopping the flow of information.

Good luck rs246, you wont see me much around here from now on. Maybe you should take note who uses your website and what is going on.

Mal, I'm sorry if you feel this way but understand. Hopefully, the situation will sort itself out and you are able to update us.

[ArthurPE]

a very pragmatic approach...

hence:
Porsche
Ferrari
BMW
Mercedes
adopting i en masse'

and they all will have deposits (unless they modify it with some sort of fuel spray on the valves) which would negate many of the benefits, so might as well use port injection alone

Because it is a recognised by-product by design? Much like pharmaceutical drugs for an exacting analogy, they have contra-inidications but the benefits far outweigh the contra-indications.

It's not like they designed it and didn't know that would happen, othersie I suspect when they opened up a few there would be a mass recall. Almost like comparing cod 'n' chips with Daddies Sauce with a nice piece of Monkfish from Zilli Fish? So in my eyes at least your definition of 'excessive' is a little unjust.

I agree with the last point you make however and equally welcome Audi's official comment; until an answer is provided by Audi on their position conjecture gets us nowehere.