munched engine...ouch! not for the faint of heart

[Sims]

Whats ironic is that whilst chastising certain posters for claiming "they know better than Audi", the biggest culprit in this department is the guy who uttered the words in the first place.

He obstinately claims carbon is not an issue, nor does it affect performance etc etc. and has used up more bandwidth on boards across mutiple continents endeavouring to justify his contention than everybody else put together...but how would he know??!! Should he left himself some "wiggle" room?

Audi obviously need him.

.

Not sure.

It seems to me that single handed, he is doing more harm to Audi & it's followers by his approach on here & every other major Audi forum. I think he is a BMW plant

[ollys]

well, that would be misconstrued...
it's not a threat, it's a statement of fact...
we are only getting one hyperbolic, inaccurate and biased side of the story
I'd (and I'm sure others) would like to hear Audi's, no?

he sure is accusing them of lying...

so now you are saying Audi would lie about this?
that would be risky strategy...
any lawyer worth his salt would have a study of his own done
and since the gist is:
carbon from valves destroyed this engine (and purportedly another)
and all engines have deposits
all engines will eventually be destroyed
this is 100's of millions of dollars at stake...hopw many DI's sold?

I do stuff like this for a living, I will continue to ask/dig/research

And I, personally, think you should be careful with statements like that Arthur - it could be construed as a threat, especially where it doesn't appear that anyone is accusing anyone else of lying above, and especially as there is no doubt you are privy to information about this issue that no-one else outside of Audi seems to be....

Oh - and in the real world -why isn't it beyond the realms of possiblity for an corporation in a similar position in which Audi finds itself with the 'Carbon issue' to lie about the truth of the issue? In fact, the cynics might say that it is more probable than not that said corporation would lie if the truth would cause it to suffer damage, be it financial, reputational or both......

Your statement of 'fact' is that if one accuses Audi of lying they won't co-operate. Is this a fact that Audi has relayed to you to pass on in this case?

I am not saying Audi is lying - how would I know? And EVEN if I did accuse Audi of lying why, pray Arthur, would that be a risky strategy, or is that just a statement of fact as well?

The point is that if Audi have nothing to hide, and nothing for them is at risk, no doubt they will be transparent about all of this and the OP's case; put bluntly there would be no question of non-co-operation at all whatever anyone (wrongly) accuses them of, and you would not be tasked with making such 'statements of fact'.

[ArthurPE]

my statement of fact is that I will send it to Audi

I guess you drew the conclusion that if you accuse Audi of lying and a cover-up, and post things not true, they may not be willing to cooperate with you...not a bad conclusion

would you?

Your statement of 'fact' is that if one accuses Audi of lying they won't co-operate. Is this a fact that Audi has relayed to you to pass on in this case?

I am not saying Audi is lying - how would I know? And EVEN if I did accuse Audi of lying why, pray Arthur, would that be a risky strategy, or is that just a statement of fact as well?

The point is that if Audi have nothing to hide, and nothing for them is at risk, no doubt they will be transparent about all of this and the OP's case; put bluntly there would be no question of non-co-operation at all whatever anyone (wrongly) accuses them of, and you would not be tasked with making such 'statements of fact'.

[ollys]

would I what? Not co-operate if I were Audi? Well only if I were behaving like a petulant child...

no smoke without fire....

[ArthurPE]

if someone basically called you dishonest and covering up an issue, would you be willing to work with them?

btw: Audi IS replacing the engine under warranty, and I'm still not convinced it should be, either becasue of misuse, tampering by non-Audi shops, used car status or time expiration...

would I what? Not co-operate if I were Audi? Well only if I were behaving like a petulant child...

no smoke without fire....

[Sims]

i

btw: Audi IS replacing the engine under warranty, and I'm still not convinced it should be, either becasue of misuse, tampering by non-Audi shops, used car status or time expiration...

Just as well you are not Audi

[ArthurPE]

Just as well you are not Audi

don't crack the champagne yet, lol

who says it's a done deal
especially after the stuff he's been posting

[ollys]

if someone basically called you dishonest and covering up an issue, would you be willing to work with them?

btw: Audi IS replacing the engine under warranty, and I'm still not convinced it should be, either becasue of misuse, tampering by non-Audi shops, used car status or time expiration...

would I what? Not co-operate if I were Audi? Well only if I were behaving like a petulant child...

no smoke without fire....

Just about sums up (a) the lack of sophistication to your arguments Arthur, and (b) what Audi really feel about the case in point...

To answer your question: I buy a premium product. It suffers total failure. It is not my fault. I am the customer. Why do I need or want to 'work with' the vendor at all to sort it ou?

I am the vendor. My product has failed but I do not know why. My customer is accusing me of all sorts, which on your case Arthur I know or strongly believe not to be true. What do I do - storm off in a huff and say I won't work with you, or do my utmost to rectify the situation, rebut the allegations in a reasoned and reasonable way? I certainly do not threaten to withdraw my 'co-operation'...... your 'statement of fact'.

It seems Audi have opted for the latter approach and are behaving like grown ups - good!. Shame the same can't be said universally...

[Sims]

who says it's a done deal
especially after the stuff he's been posting

What are you suggesting, or this is bravado (threat) you are accustomed to dishing out hoping you will not get challenged?

Man up and tell us what you mean. or don't make such veiled threats.

[ArthurPE]

and yours sums up the lack of sophistication of yours

what if you contributed to the failure?

yes, if the customer is taking an arbitrary and confrontational position, tell him to go packing, especially if he may have contributed to the failure and you are performing the work as a 'goodwill' gesture, and he is showing none...

my statement of fact: I will (and have) forwarded the thread to Audi
not thast Audi will withdraw support, although anything is possible...

the case is not closed yet...a grown-up will defend their position from lies and distortions (as I am doing with you) and as Audi has the right to do with anyone who who defames them and posts false information in the public domain...

Just about sums up (a) the lack of sophistication to your arguments Arthur, and (b) what Audi really feel about the case in point...

To answer your question: I buy a premium product. It suffers total failure. It is not my fault. I am the customer. Why do I need or want to 'work with' the vendor at all to sort it ou?

I am the vendor. My product has failed but I do not know why. My customer is accusing me of all sorts, which on your case Arthur I know or strongly believe not to be true. What do I do - storm off in a huff and say I won't work with you, or do my utmost to rectify the situation, rebut the allegations in a reasoned and reasonable way? I certainly do not threaten to withdraw my 'co-operation'...... your 'statement of fact'.

It seems Audi have opted for the latter approach and are behaving like grown ups - good!. Shame the same can't be said universally...

[ArthurPE]

again, fact...no one knows how this will end up yet...
and he's not helping himself
not a threat, a common sense observation

What are you suggesting, or this is bravado (threat) you are accustomed to dishing out hoping you will not get challenged?

Man up and tell us what you mean. or don't make such veiled threats.

[P_G]

He obstinately claims carbon is not an issue, nor does it affect performance etc etc.

I would suggest the inference is that there is not substantive evidence to attribute carbon build up to the issue and there is no statement from Audi to say this is the issue and that is the problem with all of these threads. None have evidence and conclusive investigative results, only part stories and a hell of a lot of internet theory.

And as for what people are 'advised' as in Rob's case, that is more Audi franchise that Audi GmbH or Audi UK isn't it? So to tar all Audi with the same brush is haphazard at best?

[ArthurPE]

why 'obstinately claims' and not logically deduced (still leaves room for me being 'wrong') ? as you are so sure I am...

do you think you are 'smarter' than I or that you know something I (and Audi) don't about the deposits?
have some sort of amazing insight do you?

imO
all analysis indicates:
no long term effect
no power loss

from what I know, experienced, have seen, I have to conclude as fact (personally, how else could it be) that deposits are a non-issue whipped up by internet frenzy and BS like the 'deposits destroyed my engine' crap...
it's not true

you've come to a different conclusion, so what?
you're correct becuase it's your opinion?
which negates mine?

you're a hoot if nothing else

He obstinately claims carbon is not an issue, nor does it affect performance etc etc. and has used up more bandwidth on boards across mutiple continents endeavouring to justify his contention than everybody else put together...but how would he know??!! Should he left himself some "wiggle" room?

[SR71]

The problem is that because you utterly dismiss anything that doesn't fit your theory with a few "back of the envelope" calculations your credibility is severely lacking....not to mention your manner has pi**ed off people all over the world...

Neither, will you admit your ignorance, although you are quite quick to point out everybody elses.

Its, frankly, embarassing to Audi because Audi didn't design the RS4 on the back of an envelope.

Your analysis cannot tell us anything about how spray patterns, internal aerodynamics, piston geometry, intake/manifold geometry, combustion etc etc are compromised by carbon buildup.

In fact it can tell us nothing about the any of the important effects that govern the whole bloody phenomena.

you've come to a different conclusion, so what?
you're correct becuase it's your opinion?
which negates mine?

Right back at you...

Of course you can hold your own opinion, but your analyses is neither controlled nor anymore valid than anybody elses. The sooner you state that, the better off everyone will be.

do you think you are 'smarter' than I or that you know something I (and Audi) don't about the deposits?
have some sort of amazing insight do you?

Right back at you...

No one is claiming they are smarter than anyone...

I am quite happy to admit my ignorance. Are you?

But anyone would think, if they listened to you, that Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals by Heywood didn't really need 915 pages, just a few formulas from the WWW.

I hazard a guess every single RS4 that has been opened up here in the UK suffers from "excessive" carbon deposition, which unless you have been exposed to the issue before, has been a significant surprise to the owner concerned.

You may or may not believe that affects performance. Who cares?

What is needed is for Audi to comment.

Not you Arthur, but Audi.

And you are not Audi's conduit to the resolution of this issue.

Honk. Honk.

[Sims]

What is needed is for Audi to comment.

Not you Arthur, but Audi.

And you are not Audi's conduit to the resolution of this issue.

Well said.