I've been looking into coilovers for my RS6 and after some exhaustive reserach, I think I may have have stumbled on a few things...
A6 coilovers on RS6
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On the surface, it seems that only H&R, Bilstein, Ohlins, KW and FK make coilovers for the RS6, but digging about a bit, I'm not sure it's actually true. There are lots of other manufacturers who seem to list coilovers for the S6 and A6 quattro, which are rated up to 1250kg fr/rr, which is the same as the Bilstein coilovers for example.
The normal A6 uses the same suspension design and so these coilovers will be interchangeable, as long as they are rated for the correct weight range. I think the manufacturers are just trying to restrict the range available to the RS6, to stop RS6 owners stumping for cheaper models.
If we assume that A6 quatro coilovers will fit, then suddenly there are options available from:
- Weitec (made by KW)
- Eibach
- Koni
Coilovers prices
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Once again, looking at prices on coilovers in the UK, it seems that we are taking a right royal shafting on price. Looking around I've found that you can get H&R coilovers from Germany for £750 inc shipping, and Bilstein PSS9 coilovers for under a grand from the US. EVen if you get clobbered on VAT, that still works out at less than £1200 for a set, compared with £1700+ in the UK. Quite a saving if you can be bothered to look!
Cheers,
Mart.
RS6 coilover findings
RE: RS6 coilover findings
Weight isn't the only factor - you will want stiffer spring, and higher damping to get the performance of the RS onto the road, and the rebound damping may well be different too. That's OK if you have variable settings on all three factors (normally spring rate will be fixed).The normal A6 uses the same suspension design and so these coilovers will be interchangeable, as long as they are rated for the correct weight range.
Given that the likes of Grizz and MRC have been tuning these cars for the past 6 years do yu not think they might have spotted "cheap alternatives" along the way??
Dave
Yeah agreed, but as long as they're rated for an A6 of the same weight, the spring rates will be similar, if not the same. Spring rates are not only related to a car's performance, they serve to support the weight of the car and so are vehicle weight dependent.
If compatibility was an issue, why does Bilstein stock the same coilover for S6, and Quatro A6 as they do for the RS6? They just seem to be the only manufacturer to admit that in fact the A6 coilovers are often the same for the RS6 as other A6 models. Here's the application list for the PSS9 for example:
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) RS6 Plus - 04/04>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) RS6 - 07/02>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 4.2 Quattro - 11/98>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 3.7 Quattro - 03/99>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 3.0 Quattro - 08/01>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.8 Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.7 T Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.7 T Quattro - 08/01>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.5 TDI Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.5 TDI Quattro - 02/00>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.4 Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Weitec who are owned by KW anyway, as well as Koni are both height and damper adjustable, so can be adjusted for your taste.
Just wanted to share my findings anyway. Not saying that any of the alternatives are good or bad, but for people on a tight budget, its good to know there may be other cheaper options.
Mart.
If compatibility was an issue, why does Bilstein stock the same coilover for S6, and Quatro A6 as they do for the RS6? They just seem to be the only manufacturer to admit that in fact the A6 coilovers are often the same for the RS6 as other A6 models. Here's the application list for the PSS9 for example:
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) RS6 Plus - 04/04>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) RS6 - 07/02>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 4.2 Quattro - 11/98>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 3.7 Quattro - 03/99>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 3.0 Quattro - 08/01>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.8 Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.7 T Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.7 T Quattro - 08/01>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.5 TDI Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.5 TDI Quattro - 02/00>01/05
Audi A6 Avant A6 Avant (4B, C5) 2.4 Quattro - 12/97>01/05
Weitec who are owned by KW anyway, as well as Koni are both height and damper adjustable, so can be adjusted for your taste.
Just wanted to share my findings anyway. Not saying that any of the alternatives are good or bad, but for people on a tight budget, its good to know there may be other cheaper options.
Mart.
Hmm - think we will have to agree to differ.
If you want your RS6 to handle like an A6 then sure, fit the B14's and enjoy. From my memory of old A6 road test write-ups the complaints were of complete lack of steering feedback and a generally "vague" feel. That's not what I want with 500BHP under my right foot!
Audi clearly reckoned that wasn't good enough for the RS and indeed concluded it needed DRC. Plenty here prefer it harder still (spring and damper rates) as well as fitting stiffer ARB's etc.
Personally I still value DRC when it works, but if I did go coilies then I'd opt for the Bilstein PSS9's simply to give myself the best chance of adjusting them to a compromise that suited me and the car. Even the H&R's which are the normal "low cost" replacement get periodic complaints on here - especially about the droopy rear when heavily loaded.
I do agree that it's good to know there are cheaper options - but in my book the one place I wouldn't go "cheaper" is suspension/brakes/tyres - it's what keeps me and the family alive!
Dave
If you want your RS6 to handle like an A6 then sure, fit the B14's and enjoy. From my memory of old A6 road test write-ups the complaints were of complete lack of steering feedback and a generally "vague" feel. That's not what I want with 500BHP under my right foot!
Audi clearly reckoned that wasn't good enough for the RS and indeed concluded it needed DRC. Plenty here prefer it harder still (spring and damper rates) as well as fitting stiffer ARB's etc.
Personally I still value DRC when it works, but if I did go coilies then I'd opt for the Bilstein PSS9's simply to give myself the best chance of adjusting them to a compromise that suited me and the car. Even the H&R's which are the normal "low cost" replacement get periodic complaints on here - especially about the droopy rear when heavily loaded.
I do agree that it's good to know there are cheaper options - but in my book the one place I wouldn't go "cheaper" is suspension/brakes/tyres - it's what keeps me and the family alive!
Dave
Hmm, not sure you get the point. I am saying that Bilstein specify the same PSS9 kit for a 2.7 A6 Quattro as they do for the RS6. Conversely, a fully adjustable coilover kit that is specced for an A6 Quattro (weighing the same as an RS6) should perform well also. If the spring rates are equal and the damping rate is adjustable anyway, then what's the issue?? If it's too soft you can just turn up the damping to suit. At the end of the day, the spring rates have to be similar, as if they were too soft, they wouldn't support the weight of the car. It's normally the damping rates that differ, but on an adjustable setup like the Weitec or Konis, you can adjust yourself to suit.
Happy to be proven wrong, but until we get the actual supplied spring rates and damping parameters for each coilover, it's impossible to know. I'm purely speculating and debating here!
Mart.
Happy to be proven wrong, but until we get the actual supplied spring rates and damping parameters for each coilover, it's impossible to know. I'm purely speculating and debating here!
Mart.
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
Are the other systems type approved for the rs6 ...
If they are happy days ..
If not i wouldn't bother ..
As for price , We buy from the uk importers so what can we do ..
If they are happy days ..
If not i wouldn't bother ..
As for price , We buy from the uk importers so what can we do ..
Unit 20
0151 3366888
The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/unit-20/104343529619713
0151 3366888
The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/unit-20/104343529619713
What you'll find is that all suspension companies actually use the same component or unit throughout their range and the A6 quatttro unit is common for all their models.
Having individual spring and damping rates for each vehicle, like original OEM, is just not viable for an aftermarket company.
They just specifiy different part numbers at the time of ordering for consumer confidence...
...and judging by this thread, its working well
Having individual spring and damping rates for each vehicle, like original OEM, is just not viable for an aftermarket company.
They just specifiy different part numbers at the time of ordering for consumer confidence...
...and judging by this thread, its working well
I found that too, the Billy PSS9 part no is for all quattro on C5 platform. I got mine from Shox in USA and they were far cheaper than most places (I couldn't get them in Dubai anyway so I had to courier them from either USA or Europe).
I agree with Golfather too, the fact that someone want coilovers means they want a sporty handling car so they won't make any soft versions....
I agree with Golfather too, the fact that someone want coilovers means they want a sporty handling car so they won't make any soft versions....
Woohoo, finally some people that get the point! Exactly, that's what I'm saying.
If Bilstein specify the same coilover for all A6 Quattro variants of a similar weight, including the RS6, I bet that coilovers from other manufacturers that are specced to fit the A6 Quattro, will also work perfectly on the RS6.
As I said, I am pretty sure that the prices of coilovers that are specced exclusively for the RS6, are artificially inflated due to the value of the car. Yet in reality, an RS6 coilover is no m ore complicated than any other, it's simply the spring and damping rates will be matched to the weight of the car.
Certainly opens up a lot of cheaper options (and not necessarily worse). Weitec for example are made by KW so they're bound to be good, whilst Koni have a good rep too.
Mart.
If Bilstein specify the same coilover for all A6 Quattro variants of a similar weight, including the RS6, I bet that coilovers from other manufacturers that are specced to fit the A6 Quattro, will also work perfectly on the RS6.
As I said, I am pretty sure that the prices of coilovers that are specced exclusively for the RS6, are artificially inflated due to the value of the car. Yet in reality, an RS6 coilover is no m ore complicated than any other, it's simply the spring and damping rates will be matched to the weight of the car.
Certainly opens up a lot of cheaper options (and not necessarily worse). Weitec for example are made by KW so they're bound to be good, whilst Koni have a good rep too.
Mart.
I'll admit to knowing very little about the product ranges before commenting on this post. So big apologies if I came across dismissive and ignorant, because I was.
I will rehash by saying, is the suspension kit up to the task and was it designed with all considerations? A lot of people will admit, the C5 RS is a big consideration.
If a company hadn't considered the RS6 when creating its suspension kit and they only used the A6 4.2 Quattro or the S6 as the 'ceiling' limit of their spec, can you trust that... on an RS6?
I'd like to think all components of the PSS9s are up to the task, from the dampening fluid, the materials used for the main housing and the piston, all hte way to the complete design brief. I'd also like to think that the company tested the kit before adding RS6 to the application list. Of course, this could be sales and marketing at play again, it wouldn't be the first time.
I like the fact that Bilstein quote the PSS9 B14 and B16 kits across their whole C5 quattro offerings including the RS6. If a company like Eibach or Koni falls short of stamping RS6 on the spec sheet then it's kinda saying something, ne? Yes the spring rates check out but why only offered up to S6?
Don't get me started about the UK pricing shaftings...
I will rehash by saying, is the suspension kit up to the task and was it designed with all considerations? A lot of people will admit, the C5 RS is a big consideration.
If a company hadn't considered the RS6 when creating its suspension kit and they only used the A6 4.2 Quattro or the S6 as the 'ceiling' limit of their spec, can you trust that... on an RS6?
I'd like to think all components of the PSS9s are up to the task, from the dampening fluid, the materials used for the main housing and the piston, all hte way to the complete design brief. I'd also like to think that the company tested the kit before adding RS6 to the application list. Of course, this could be sales and marketing at play again, it wouldn't be the first time.
I like the fact that Bilstein quote the PSS9 B14 and B16 kits across their whole C5 quattro offerings including the RS6. If a company like Eibach or Koni falls short of stamping RS6 on the spec sheet then it's kinda saying something, ne? Yes the spring rates check out but why only offered up to S6?
Don't get me started about the UK pricing shaftings...
No matter where you go, there you are.
No worries mate.
I know what you’re saying, but I don’t see how the power or acceleration potential of a car is related to the suspension spec? Obviously, sporty cars will require more aggressive damping and harder spring rates as standard in order to control the car during vigorous steering inputs and weight shifting. But fitting coilover suspension assumes that the driver is looking for a performance setup for their car, and so the spec of the coilover will ultimately be dictated by the weight of the car only, as the damping rate range will be directly linked to the spring rate chosen.
A coilover spring is only there to support the weight of the car, not as is often mistakenly thought, to control lateral car movement. Ultimately it is the dampers that do most of the work, and the damping rates that define the behaviour of the car over varied ground. But as the damping range of the coilover is defined by the spring rate supplied (which is defined by the car’s weight), then assuming that the weight of the RS6 and the A6 Quattro are similar, then the coilover specs for both cars should also be similar.
The Bilstein PSS9 for the RS6/A6 is rated up to 1250kg, so my reasoning based on the above logic is that a coilover designed for the A6 of a similar weight to the RS6 should be fine on the RS6.
Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems pretty simple to me?
Mart.
I know what you’re saying, but I don’t see how the power or acceleration potential of a car is related to the suspension spec? Obviously, sporty cars will require more aggressive damping and harder spring rates as standard in order to control the car during vigorous steering inputs and weight shifting. But fitting coilover suspension assumes that the driver is looking for a performance setup for their car, and so the spec of the coilover will ultimately be dictated by the weight of the car only, as the damping rate range will be directly linked to the spring rate chosen.
A coilover spring is only there to support the weight of the car, not as is often mistakenly thought, to control lateral car movement. Ultimately it is the dampers that do most of the work, and the damping rates that define the behaviour of the car over varied ground. But as the damping range of the coilover is defined by the spring rate supplied (which is defined by the car’s weight), then assuming that the weight of the RS6 and the A6 Quattro are similar, then the coilover specs for both cars should also be similar.
The Bilstein PSS9 for the RS6/A6 is rated up to 1250kg, so my reasoning based on the above logic is that a coilover designed for the A6 of a similar weight to the RS6 should be fine on the RS6.
Perhaps I am missing something, but it seems pretty simple to me?
Mart.
C6 RS6 Plus with a few sensible mods...
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