Gearbox life survey

[RS6Steve]

Email sent. We shall wait for a response.

You can count me in on this should we get a positive answer

[ecain63]

I'll put up a new thread to see who's interested.

[RS6-4dr911]

Still running roughly 2:1 in favor of never failed, also (depending on how you slice cars that have been tuned part way through) roughly half of each group are standard vs. tuned. Unsophisticated logic says tuning isn't what leads to failure.

[ecain63]

I dont think there is any rhym or reason for the failure, other than maybe hard driving and poor warm up procedure.

[MoRS6+]

Still running roughly 2:1 in favor of never failed, also (depending on how you slice cars that have been tuned part way through) roughly half of each group are standard vs. tuned. Unsophisticated logic says tuning isn't what leads to failure.

What about the failure rate of those who have had the ATF changed vs not had it changed. Any correlation there? I'm still in the sceptical corner regarding failures occurring after the change either because it wasn't done properly or the fluid was never quite as high as it was originally.

[jd_hants]

I've left mine in the failed/failing section as it did actually fail and did need the gearbox out to fix it although the gearbox itself seems to be ok!!

[CliveH]

Please tell us more JD... has a gearbox service resolved the problems?

EDIT : actually, sounds a bit more serious than a service!

[RS6-4dr911]

What about the failure rate of those who have had the ATF changed vs not had it changed. Any correlation there? I'm still in the sceptical corner regarding failures occurring after the change either because it wasn't done properly or the fluid was never quite as high as it was originally.

Roughly 2/3 of Never's serviced, roughly half of Failed's. I assume no comment on service to mean it's never been serviced.

More unsophisticated logic says inconclusive but interesting.


The general rule of thumb I've heard is if a box is cruddy inside, the sediment has found a home. When you drain and fill, or flush, (without a complete disassembly) the sediment is dislodged and finds its way into valves and passages keeping them from delivering full pressure. So if its gone too long (80k'ish miles) without a service, most will say leave it alone and let nature take its course.

[batty]

there's more info on the reasons for failure on rs6.com - from memory its due to the auto transmission fluid breaking down due to the temperature and cycles from the torque convertor. The fluid loses its friction properties, then the brake bands start to slip in the gearbox.
The easy way to avoid this is regular fluid changes - possibly every 40k miles for standard or 20k miles for tuned.

[paul_23]

I had my ATF and filter changed then the TC failed (or would not lock up) within 1000kms. The Audi tech foreman at the dealer strongly recommended me NOT to change it as best advice from Germany HQ was not to touch the ZF-HP24 GB unless something wrong with it. I went against his advice and who knows whether the TC would have stopped working in 1000, 5000 or ?kms if I had left it. My guess the TC lock up valve was on its way out and the the flush of new ATF triggered it to not work all the time!?!

With hindsight, and reading threads on here, and on RS6.com, I would definately change ATF every 20k kms if the engine is chipped but make sure it is done properly and it is properly filled up with no leaks.....

[MoRS6+]

Oh hell. I'm none the wiser!!

Mileage on 26k at the moment so still nervous about the first change on it. Do I do it or don't I????????

There is one other alternative - do exactly as I did on my old A6 4.2 which is to change it myself. I still have the 20 litre drum (about half-full) of genuine Audi ATF fluid left from that. Me and a TSN member did it in a day and bought all the bits required from Hatfield Audi.I'm not blowing my own trumpet here but it was pretty easy. Just so long as you make absolutely certain that the oil is completely topped up and the little seals etc. are replced properly, then it isn't a hard job.

Only thing I am worried about is how different is the RS6 from the A6 4.2? Can't be that different as the A6 was a 300hp V8 after all. The car drove perfect afterwards - smooth as silk.

Only one caveat is that I upgraded that car to the D2 S8 fairly soon afterwards. So I never got the opportunity to see how long the 'box worked nicely for afterwards which is a slight bugger really. But at the end of the day, it drove perfect when I sold it with no slips or clunks. Mileage on that car I believe was about 57k and the oil was pretty dirty, but the little magnets had absolutely no swarf on them at all - so I'm guessing it had an easy life.

So what do you folks reckon - DIY again?

[Shoppinit]

Exactly the same job as the other car. DIY, that wayyou know it's done properly.

[CliveH]

Personally, I would take it to an auto transmission specialist, who has alll the necessary equipment, but if you're a competent DIYer (and I'm not!), then why not?

[C6NVS]

Reviving the list (sorry, been MIA for a while):

Failed/failing
1. Rupert (2004) Standard power, failed at exactly 60k miles
2. paulm (2002) mrc Stage 1 at 40,000 ish. tc failed 42,000 mls (going manual)
3. batty (2004) STD 61k, gearbox replaced at 57k, no fluid change prior to that.
4. paul23 - STD till 30k, gearbox service at 25k, failed TC at 26k. MTM remap at 30k and on 31k now.
5. Mooch - standard when bought at 20ishk but box started to slip around 22-25k, grizz mapped it and it failed fairly soon after, (it was actually hunting only) gearbox replaced by Audi and not done well- lost oil due to ALL sump nuts only finger tight- grizz sorted.. serviced at 40k all fine. TCU mapped and all ok until 80k. now running big torque and box does not like it. 89k. but still going well if handled with care!
6. skyegtb - New box at 25,000 miles was running MTM 535 then, not sure of failure (previous owner). Now 52,000 miles and been MTM 568'd at same time as box replaced. G/Box service at 40,000 miles, all good, no issues so far, smooth as silk.
7. w8pmc - had 2 boxes go during ownership. 1st at about 15K miles & the car was stock (had only owned it about 2 months) Soon after i had the car tuned to Sportec/AmD Stage 2-3 & was putting out over 560BHP & lbsft & the box (mapped during tune) was fine through to 40K miles when it failed again. Sold the car soon after that.
8. p3u - clutch packs and tc went due to loss of pressure in system at ~91k miles. Stock other then Milltek exhaust at the time.
9. JD_Hants (2003) Gearbox serviced 80K. MRC Stage 1+ @ 85K, 87K now slipping and clunking and not good!!!

Never Failed
1. Dave (2003) MRC Stage 1+ at 80K, still going strong at 110K, box serviced at 80K
2. Gorwanvfr Standard power 39,000 mls still going strong (Never touched)
3. el_ringo (2003) STD until 55,000 mi (Oct08) CCode 1, a 'box service at 60,000 (Mar09) now at 75,000mi (Feb10)
4. CliveH (2002) AMD code since mid 06 55k, gearbox service at 60k (Oct06), still going strong at 90k
5. RS6Steve (2003) Standard 63K still okay (Gearbox full service 62k, No debris)
6.Shoppinit 75000 mls with no problems. ATF changed at 70k and will be at every service now. ATF was clear and clean.
7. Steve Cuz (2003) STD 77k, Gearbox ok, (2 gearbox services in 2009)
8. ecain63 - bought at 50k. MTM1 on ECU and TCU @ 51k. Box serviced every 20k since. Still tight as a Nunns chuff and hit 90k mark today.
9. RS6-4dr911 – 48k mi on original, MTM TCU at 35k, fluid changed at 40k, flushed at 46k, clean fluid on both, will flush every 20k hereafter, just now flashed ECU to Eurocharge Stg.1,
10. woodlum (2002) STD 48k, no probs and works fine, never been serviced, undecided as to service or not??
11. RS6_Dave (2003) Std til 27,500, then MRC Stage 1+ , box map with Service, not a glitch but only on 33k now...
12. MoRS6+ RS6plus, STD, 26k, original ATF, smooth as ice.
13. Bazza (2003) Oettinger remap on ECU/TCU @ 29K (2006) now 39k...fingers crossed all OK
14. Coullboy (2004) GregR1's old motor. Gearbox oil + Filter etc 57K(£360 Specialist cars Aberdeen) , seems to be fine. Engine Standard (59K now).
15. 500bhp (2003) Grizzed, CC Stage2 + TCU, Gearbox oil + Filter etc 95K. All fine
16. Knutts (2003), STD, 78k, no probs and never been serviced.
17. Robrs6 (2003) STD, 88K, Box serviced at 50K, still going strong.
18. C5NVS (2003) STD, 58k, owned since 55k and no clear evidence of service (FASH and considering Audi "lifetime" ATF stance, suspect no service), gearbox still drives like new.

[Hartge]

Adding mine to the list, as just had another new box fitted under warranty last week.
(now changing driving style from D to S/Paddles to see if that makes a difference)

Failed/failing
1. Rupert (2004) Standard power, failed at exactly 60k miles
2. paulm (2002) mrc Stage 1 at 40,000 ish. tc failed 42,000 mls (going manual)
3. batty (2004) STD 61k, gearbox replaced at 57k, no fluid change prior to that.
4. paul23 - STD till 30k, gearbox service at 25k, failed TC at 26k. MTM remap at 30k and on 31k now.
5. Mooch - standard when bought at 20ishk but box started to slip around 22-25k, grizz mapped it and it failed fairly soon after, (it was actually hunting only) gearbox replaced by Audi and not done well- lost oil due to ALL sump nuts only finger tight- grizz sorted.. serviced at 40k all fine. TCU mapped and all ok until 80k. now running big torque and box does not like it. 89k. but still going well if handled with care!
6. skyegtb - New box at 25,000 miles was running MTM 535 then, not sure of failure (previous owner). Now 52,000 miles and been MTM 568'd at same time as box replaced. G/Box service at 40,000 miles, all good, no issues so far, smooth as silk.
7. w8pmc - had 2 boxes go during ownership. 1st at about 15K miles & the car was stock (had only owned it about 2 months) Soon after i had the car tuned to Sportec/AmD Stage 2-3 & was putting out over 560BHP & lbsft & the box (mapped during tune) was fine through to 40K miles when it failed again. Sold the car soon after that.
8. p3u - clutch packs and tc went due to loss of pressure in system at ~91k miles. Stock other then Milltek exhaust at the time.
9. JD_Hants (2003) Gearbox serviced 80K. MRC Stage 1+ @ 85K, 87K now slipping and clunking and not good!!!
10. Hartge (2004) MTM Stage 1 (ECU & TCU) @16k. First box failed at 35k, second at 49k

Never Failed
1. Dave (2003) MRC Stage 1+ at 80K, still going strong at 110K, box serviced at 80K
2. Gorwanvfr Standard power 39,000 mls still going strong (Never touched)
3. el_ringo (2003) STD until 55,000 mi (Oct08) CCode 1, a 'box service at 60,000 (Mar09) now at 75,000mi (Feb10)
4. CliveH (2002) AMD code since mid 06 55k, gearbox service at 60k (Oct06), still going strong at 90k
5. RS6Steve (2003) Standard 63K still okay (Gearbox full service 62k, No debris)
6.Shoppinit 75000 mls with no problems. ATF changed at 70k and will be at every service now. ATF was clear and clean.
7. Steve Cuz (2003) STD 77k, Gearbox ok, (2 gearbox services in 2009)
8. ecain63 - bought at 50k. MTM1 on ECU and TCU @ 51k. Box serviced every 20k since. Still tight as a Nunns chuff and hit 90k mark today.
9. RS6-4dr911 – 48k mi on original, MTM TCU at 35k, fluid changed at 40k, flushed at 46k, clean fluid on both, will flush every 20k hereafter, just now flashed ECU to Eurocharge Stg.1,
10. woodlum (2002) STD 48k, no probs and works fine, never been serviced, undecided as to service or not??
11. RS6_Dave (2003) Std til 27,500, then MRC Stage 1+ , box map with Service, not a glitch but only on 33k now...
12. MoRS6+ RS6plus, STD, 26k, original ATF, smooth as ice.
13. Bazza (2003) Oettinger remap on ECU/TCU @ 29K (2006) now 39k...fingers crossed all OK
14. Coullboy (2004) GregR1's old motor. Gearbox oil + Filter etc 57K(£360 Specialist cars Aberdeen) , seems to be fine. Engine Standard (59K now).
15. 500bhp (2003) Grizzed, CC Stage2 + TCU, Gearbox oil + Filter etc 95K. All fine
16. Knutts (2003), STD, 78k, no probs and never been serviced.
17. Robrs6 (2003) STD, 88K, Box serviced at 50K, still going strong.
18. C5NVS (2003) STD, 58k, owned since 55k and no clear evidence of service (FASH and considering Audi "lifetime" ATF stance, suspect no service), gearbox still drives like new.