from B5 RS4 to B7 S4..

[neckarsulm]

These are just my opinions based on thorough drives of the 2 cars and seeing as forum is a bit slow these days it's a bit more content;

Had 2 x B5 RS4s over last 3 years, being a specialist car dealer I don't tend to settle down with cars for long, so my ownership of these speaks volumes.

Wasn't looking to change but drove a B7 RS4 and it got me thinking.
Then I ended up buying a 2006 B7 S4 Avant with a view to selling on.
The more I thought about the more I thought, maybe, it would be a good enough replacement for the RS4 and after 3 years I fancied a change and never had a V8 before and there wont be much of a chance again seeing as B8 is V6 again.
While the B7 RS4 has received all the hype is it really that much better? The S4 does not have FSI so doesn't have the clogged inlet issues, nor does it have DRC woes and doesn't have a reputation for producing much less than its stated BHP. If a well specced RS4 is producing 370 and a basic manual S4 is at 344bhp I bet the power to weight ratios will be very close.
But I wasn't going to commit until I did some proper drives, first of which was Bham to Stratford on Avon via A/B roads and last weekend Bham to Stow on Wold from J15 M40 via A429 both on Sundays.
With a completely open mind I was very impressed and it hinges around that engine which is torquey and doesn't mind pulling away from idle rpm in sixth but revs so sweetly and smoothly so far up the rev range and sounds beautiful doing so. Power doesn't feel lacking compare to my B5 though sharp throttle response probably helps.
The chassis is very well balanced but god is the ride harsh even on standard 18s, should be OK in standard form on the track though.
MPG is pretty much the same though CO2 emissions of 324g/km explain why it didn't sell well once the showroom tax came in 2006.
The seats are the same beautiful Recaros and thankfully heated on this S4 so just like the RS4.
Tyres and brakes are all much cheaper than RS4, discs and pads for front are the same as one RS4 disc.
Being pre 3/2006 tax is just £215 which is same as RS4
As for reliability the S4 has done 84k with 1 owner who told me both this one and his previous B6 have both performed impeccably and just had routine servicing. Under the bonnet with no turbos there is a lot less to go wrong.
As for price, both cars are roughly the same value.
Sure the RS4 looks beautiful especially in Nogaro Blue and the black S4 looks like a 115bhp S-line to the untrained eye but the 4 exhausts on the B7 and the Avus alloys on this early B7 help it stand out as do the subtle V8 badges.
There is no winner - the S4 is a better car with so many more years development behind it but the RS4 is a legend and worthy of a space in anyones dream garage, just wish I could keep both

[BlingBling]

Good review. The S4 may not be the as good a drive as the class leaders but the fact it ticks so many boxes makes up for its other deficencies.

[HYFR]

iv had a B6 S4 (saloon and cab) and its miles away from being anywhere near my RS4

[neckarsulm]

iv had a B6 S4 (saloon and cab) and its miles away from being anywhere near my RS4

A fair comment from an experienced owner, I guess I need to spend a lot more time with a B7 RS4 to pass comment and I have no doubt the B7 RS4 is an amazing car, it's just the S4 is far better than I expected and appears to be superb value and overlooked by the press (I can't find 1 Audi Driver road test of B7 S4) and at 60% of the RS4 price, I'll stick my neck out and say it's better value for money but of course this isn't everyones top priority when buying a car like this.

[stumpyrs4]

The B6 S4 has been covered, and there's very little difference between the B6 and B7.

I highly rate the B6 S4 - I had an Avant. Their main setback apart from the lack of turbos, is their weight. That 4.2 V8 is bloody heavy which does upset the handling somewhat. That said remember the Top Gear test between the B6 S4 / Scoobie / Evo...? Jezza chose the S4...

Couple it with an aftermarket exhaust, lowered suspension, lighter wheels, a custom map... Would be a much better car IMO. Still wouldn't compare to an RS, but alot better being a tad lighter and with c380bhp, quicker too...

[HYFR]

dont get me wrong mate, S4 is a fantastic car, i aee, very underrated...just quite different from the RS4....it took me about a month to get used to the RS4, one or two quick drives doesnt really let you explore the 8250 rpm and amazing handling

I agree the S4 is superb VFM, and more VFM than the RS if you get a good spec/deal

A few choice mods to turn it more to the side of a racer than a cruiser and you would give an RS a gd fight, but the RS4 has a different, raw'er feel about it, lighter on its feet, nimble in the turn

There are many difference between the two, i dnt confess to know them all, but simple things like the front panels being Alu for better weight distr. etc

iv had a B6 S4 (saloon and cab) and its miles away from being anywhere near my RS4

A fair comment from an experienced owner, I guess I need to spend a lot more time with a B7 RS4 to pass comment and I have no doubt the B7 RS4 is an amazing car, it's just the S4 is far better than I expected and appears to be superb value and overlooked by the press (I can't find 1 Audi Driver road test of B7 S4) and at 60% of the RS4 price, I'll stick my neck out and say it's better value for money but of course this isn't everyones top priority when buying a car like this.

[HYFR]

The S4 does not have FSI so doesn't have the clogged inlet issues.

I thought the B7 4.2 did have FSI technology ?

[BlingBling]

That 4.2 V8 is bloody heavy which does upset the handling somewhat. That said remember the Top Gear test between the B6 S4 / Scoobie / Evo...? Jezza chose the S4...

The 4.2L actually weighs less than the 2.7 V6 unit. The problem is the fact it is mounted longitudinal as opposed to traversely.

I thought the B7 4.2 did have FSI technology ?

The RS4 and S5 enignes are FSI. The S4 variant is not.

[neckarsulm]

David, your input is appreciated, it's nice to have a constructive discussion.
I was surprised to find quoted weight for RS4 was less than S4 considering extra panel metal, bigger brakes so some effort must have been made.
I can't emphasise how hard the ride is on the S4, there is no mistaking it for a soft cruiser with a ride somewhat harder than a Mk5 Golf GTI.
I must look more info FSI but my guess is that its primary purpose is to reduce emissions/fuel economy.
I do find it odd that they didn't FSI the S4 engine when the B7 S4, maybe it would have been too similar to RS4?

[HYFR]

have you ever driven an RS 6? when I sold my 1st RS 6 and got into my S4 saloon, it was like driving an A8 as I found the ride so much softer! not sure if they changed it in the B7 (mine was a B6)

perhaps my DRC was broke!

[elmo]

I was very interested to read the initial review of the S4 B7 ownership and some of the replies from both other S4 and RS4 owners.

Having never owned or driven and RS4 (either B5 or B7), I can not comment on the similarities or differences between the two vehicles. From what I have read from this and other forums, they seem to be completely different beasts with a different set of objectives.

For myself, as a new member of the S4 B6 brigade I can confirm that I am more than happy with the first year of ownership. I confirm that I considered many different options when initially looking for a suitable sports saloon:

1) Evo VI to VIII - too tinny, plasticy, ridiculous insurance and 4000 mile service intervals.

2) Scooby STI - Same as above, but worse.

3) BMW M3 - Not available in a four door, and suspect handling in the wet.

4) Golf R32 - Why have one of these over an S4?

but finally decided on the S4.

I have had a couple of small niggly electrical problems, but other than that it does exactly what I wanted it to do. I can have a blast on the B roads on my own, and transport the family comfortably to the shops without deafening them or having the thing break down on me (touch wood).

Also, in one year of ownership, I have only seen 3 or 4 S4 B6s and two S4 B7s, compared to numerous RS4 B7s and M3, so I think the S4 has more exclusivity than the RS.

Having said all that, I think if you asked most S4 owners their opinion, they would have had an RS4 if their funds and wife would let them!

[neckarsulm]

perhaps my DRC was broke!

LOL

Elmo, you could have a B5 RS4 and a B6, even B7 S4 for the same money as an RS4 B7, even harder to convince the wife then though I guess

[neckarsulm]

Had another drive in the S4 today.
Do they all take off at 3000 rpm?It reminds me of a Mk2 Golf GTI 16v at 5000rpm.

I have noticed the gearing is a lot shorter than the RS4 which may explain why it feels RS4 quick from less bhp especially in 6th.

just checked ETKA and yes the S4 is a lot lower geared, I feel robbed!

s4 hvm rs4 fdp
1
2
38/26 3 33/25
34/30 4 30/29
34/37 5 30/35
35/45 6 26/38

[no_RS]

Interesting thread and yes the engine kinda wakes up at 3k and above, this is where the variable intake timing starts. If you look at the timing chains thread that has re-appeard you can see the adjusters on the back of the intake cams.

Personally to try and compare the S4 with the RS4 is like apples and oranges, I chose an S4 primarily for it's under stated looks, general reliabilty i.e. less fancy stuff (no FSI, DRC or brake pads that knacker your discs, etc, etc) and there are probably less of them, in a straight drag race with an RS4, the RS won but it was no disgrace and i'm sure a different story again in twisty bits.

As previously suggested a few mods would improve matters, particularly in the handling department as they do want to understeer so RS4 ARB's do improve matters. The harsh ride is pretty much down to the sport suspension which is the same as the s-line (apologies for swearing) range and probably why DRC was used on the RS.

Pete

[neckarsulm]

sport suspension which is the same as the s-line

Is it really the same suspension as on a 115 TDI S-line?
Surely the V8 up front justifies custom dampers/springs?