New to the forums, but we will shortley be taking on our own RS6 project car.
Just wandered has anyone on the forums done an LPG conversion on one of these before?
We plan to use one of the best kits on the market and double up the LPG injectors so that we can have 2 per cyclinder. This will provide a crazy amount of fueling potential..
does anyone know the limits of this engine/gearbox?
LPG on RS6
There was a thread on this a while back here:
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... ic&t=76440
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... ic&t=76440
What's the point? It like putting a solar panel on a volcano.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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Driven2automotive
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Good auto gas is over 100 octane there is much more power to be had. Especially when you double up the injectors and run more boost!Shoppinit wrote:What's the point? It like putting a solar panel on a volcano.
It’s also the challenge of making this beast run on a fuel which it wasn’t designed for which will reduce the running cost considerably.
We may do this to the C6 and get a really good aftermarket spec from it.
We did one months ago , Running very well....
Unit 20
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The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
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0151 3366888
The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/unit-20/104343529619713
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Driven2automotive
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It's not all about octane. The calorific value of LPG is 20% less than petrol so that's a lot less energy per liter.
I don't think that the tuning potential is an argument for using LPG. The RS6 engine can be tuned to well in excess of what the transmission can handle with relatively few modifications. Look at the Gumpert Apollo... same engine but with 800PS. No one would do this with an RS6 because you'd turn the transmission into spagbol the first time you put your foot down.
I don't think that the tuning potential is an argument for using LPG. The RS6 engine can be tuned to well in excess of what the transmission can handle with relatively few modifications. Look at the Gumpert Apollo... same engine but with 800PS. No one would do this with an RS6 because you'd turn the transmission into spagbol the first time you put your foot down.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
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Driven2automotive
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True be told we are building this car for a alternative fuel racing series. There are some very powerful cars in the series using bio ethanol, some using bio diesel, some on LPG and other fuels also.Shoppinit wrote:It's not all about octane. The calorific value of LPG is 20% less than petrol so that's a lot less energy per liter.
I don't think that the tuning potential is an argument for using LPG. The RS6 engine can be tuned to well in excess of what the transmission can handle with relatively few modifications. Look at the Gumpert Apollo... same engine but with 800PS. No one would do this with an RS6 because you'd turn the transmission into spagbol the first time you put your foot down.
we know about calorific value, we own an LPG distribution network there is not much we don’t know about it. It makes no difference to the performance it just effects fuel economy. Who cares about alot less energy per litre when we can buy autogas at 32.5p per litre! It will still decrease overall fuel cost by over 50-60%!
We have done many tuning projects with it, some in excess of 1000 BHP
we are merely trying to learn about the maximum tolerances of the rs6 gearbox, as we are trying to build a reliable rs6 race car which will last .
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Driven2automotive
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[quote="Driven2automotive"][quote="Shoppinit"]It's not all about octane. The calorific value of LPG is 20% less than petrol so that's a lot less energy per liter.
It will still decrease overall fuel cost by over 50-60%!
quote]
if you like paying all of the duties on petrol to the government then good for you, but we certainly don’t! Petrol being already around £1.07 per litre in the uk, set to rise considerably over the next 12 months!
LPG is a good alternate performance fuel for the time being.
It will still decrease overall fuel cost by over 50-60%!
quote]
if you like paying all of the duties on petrol to the government then good for you, but we certainly don’t! Petrol being already around £1.07 per litre in the uk, set to rise considerably over the next 12 months!
LPG is a good alternate performance fuel for the time being.
Fair enough if the objective is a racing series or similar.
IIRC the earlier post concluded something like 50K miles for payback in normal motoring, plus the inconvenience of losing the boot space/battery relocation (again not an issue in a racer I'm sure).
The weak link will be the transmission. General view appears to be that the Torque Convertor needs to be replaced with a racing unit, and that you'll need substantial additional gearbox cooling too. Better route may well be to go whole hog and replace with a manual box and just accept that there will be a LOT of work mating the whole system up. Once again Grizz is already well down this route for a road car AFAIK.
There is also a Greek RS4 with the RS6 powerplant shoe-horned in which might be a better route to go if you are after a bespoke racer since you are starting with the smaller lighter body (better track handling), manual transmission etc, and simply playing with the power plant.
Just my thoughts
Dave
IIRC the earlier post concluded something like 50K miles for payback in normal motoring, plus the inconvenience of losing the boot space/battery relocation (again not an issue in a racer I'm sure).
The weak link will be the transmission. General view appears to be that the Torque Convertor needs to be replaced with a racing unit, and that you'll need substantial additional gearbox cooling too. Better route may well be to go whole hog and replace with a manual box and just accept that there will be a LOT of work mating the whole system up. Once again Grizz is already well down this route for a road car AFAIK.
There is also a Greek RS4 with the RS6 powerplant shoe-horned in which might be a better route to go if you are after a bespoke racer since you are starting with the smaller lighter body (better track handling), manual transmission etc, and simply playing with the power plant.
Just my thoughts
Dave
The philopshy for race cars isn't remotely the same as for road cars. A manual conversion for a racing engine would be much simpler than for a road car if you don't have to worry about economy, emissions, ESP, ABS, etc.
There are a couple of manual conversions on the way. I know of 3 being developed concurrently
Will be interesting to see who's first to market.
For the LPG I think it's a personal choice. I have an LPG Range Rover but I wouldn't consider putting it on the RS6. I've seen what happens in the FSi engines when there's no petrol to wash the carbon away. But I'm sure it's a wonderful fuel for others.
In any case, I'd be interested in learning more about the Alternative Fuels racing series. Have you got any links?
There are a couple of manual conversions on the way. I know of 3 being developed concurrently
Will be interesting to see who's first to market. For the LPG I think it's a personal choice. I have an LPG Range Rover but I wouldn't consider putting it on the RS6. I've seen what happens in the FSi engines when there's no petrol to wash the carbon away. But I'm sure it's a wonderful fuel for others.
In any case, I'd be interested in learning more about the Alternative Fuels racing series. Have you got any links?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Ive got an RS6 with an LPG conversion on it, the system runs perfectly 10k miles since installation, there is no drop in performance, the fuels around 49p per ltr, I have taken the option to move the battery so the tank is in the spare wheel well, the decrease in boot space is minimal, with the option to upgrade the head unit and then locate a battery into the n/s inner wing (no loss in boot space).
The car is averaging 18mpg, the fuel is at least 50% cheaper than petrol so its running the same as 37mpg....Not many 450bhp cars available to seat 5 with boot space and 37mpg.
I have a reduction in the insurance the servicing is the same as before and there is a nominal reduction in the road tax.
The car is averaging 18mpg, the fuel is at least 50% cheaper than petrol so its running the same as 37mpg....Not many 450bhp cars available to seat 5 with boot space and 37mpg.
I have a reduction in the insurance the servicing is the same as before and there is a nominal reduction in the road tax.
Last edited by dolphin on Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:19 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Cornishmoocher
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I know someone who has a Gumpert with 800hp AND a battery pack that adds another 100hp. He killed 4 gearboxes in a Dubai race and had to ;limit it to somewhere around 500hp to get the trq down enough to finish the race. He is heavily into alternative fuels and will soon be removing the BCY lump and putting something smaller, lighter and more feul effecient in it whilst trying to keep 800 ish geegees.
I am running about 590-595ftlbs on my RS6 and it is right on the raggedy edge.
good luck with it fella, not that I would be putting LPG in mine, I am sure there will be a market for it. But you are also in good company with the alternative fuels....keep your eyes open for a white Gumpert.......
I am running about 590-595ftlbs on my RS6 and it is right on the raggedy edge.
good luck with it fella, not that I would be putting LPG in mine, I am sure there will be a market for it. But you are also in good company with the alternative fuels....keep your eyes open for a white Gumpert.......
It's all Bollox.
Half of what you read is bull and the other half is all <beep>.
Half of what you read is bull and the other half is all <beep>.
This lpg rs6 is now for sale..http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/1402292.htm
Unit 20
0151 3366888
The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/unit-20/104343529619713
0151 3366888
The northwest's only dedicated 'RS' repair centre.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/unit-20/104343529619713
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