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[Dippy]

As far as insurances go, I don't think an insurance inspector or whatever the name could ever come to the conclusion that an ECU has been reprogrammed for a performance/HP upgrade, the Motronic ME7.x systems on S3s, S4s, RS4s are soooo tricky and it takes so much knowledge and money just to be able to tell if something has been modified in order to increase the power, that the guy who knows it won't work for insurances anymore but will rather become a chip tuner himself.

I'm sure that you're right. However these days the insurance companies are becoming more aware of the issues, and it would be so easy for them to ask a tuner to check an ECU and tell them if it had been modded. For the few £000s that it would cost, it could be seen as worthwhile for some.

I'm not saying that it is happening or even will happen, just that it might, and that's the risk you take by not informing your insurer.

[Golich]

I'd like an insurance companies honest opinion on this.

I suppose they would have us believe that a modified car is in higher risk catagory and possibly the actual cost of the car repair is overall a fraction of the total cost of say 3rd part costs. However, I struggle to see this arguement as my S4 was worth less than a third of my RS4 and we all know what kind of money we are talking here. [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Jon you're or resident insurance man. What's your thoughts/experience on this?

[Dippy]

I'll be honest on the insurance point - I didn't inform my insurance of my chipped S4. It's my opinion that insurance companies are some of the biggest rip of corporations going. At least a large proportion of them. They're right up with Audi as far as I'm concerned but I can appreciate that others will hold a different opinion on this.


Ok the car is faster but I don't believe it results a marked increase in risk to warrant some of the outragous premiums some companies want in return given the already top premium charged. Which it is interetsing how some companies don't mind and others do - The ones that don't entertain would have you believe it's to reduce the premiums of all their other customers - What rubbish. I know from previous experience at least two comapnies are much the same price as all the other main stream ones.

I guess the real question is on whether an innocent 3rd party is involved.

Now correct me if I'm wrong (I guess that's a given [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]) but I'm fairly certain there is an pot of money that insurers pay into that covers innocents - As with most things you probably have to fight damn hard for it.

As far as I'm concered the modifications didn't transform my standard car into some death on wheels or totaly uncontrolable machine - If in the unspeakable event I had written it off then I wouldn't expect the insurance company to give me an extra £1200 for the cost of the mods.

Having said that I'd pay an extra 10% or so on the premium but some cheeky gits wanted more than it was to insure an RS4.. Go figure [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Pulling on the flack jacket... [img]images/graemlins/scared.gif[/img]

No, I'm not going to get into a big debate, but I'll say a few things:
1) Yes I agree that some insurance companies are a rip-off, but many aren't. There are many of us here who have paid a reasonable premium for our mods.
2) Driving faster (or more importantly accelerating) does increase risks. We can argue how much, but you have to accept that the risks are higher.
3) It's not just the risk of accident. There's also the risk from theft. Of course you would need to check if the mods are covered. If not (e.g. Elephant) then you should pay less premium.
4) The bit about the pot of money is key. That pot is made from our premiums in the first place. If more people were honest about insurance then the pot would be smaller...
5) The bottom line is that IF you have an accident and your insurers discoved your mods, they MIGHT refuse to pay. With a 3rd party involved (and especially injuries), then as well as a criminal prosecution you might face a massive civil court bill. THAT'S the risk you should think about.

[Jon]

4) The bit about the pot of money is key. That pot is made from our premiums in the first place. If more people were honest about insurance then the pot would be smaller...
5) The bottom line is that IF you have an accident and your insurers discoved your mods, they MIGHT refuse to pay. With a 3rd party involved (and especially injuries), then as well as a criminal prosecution you might face a massive civil court bill. THAT'S the risk you should think about.

In this instance what would happen is they would pay the 3rd party as they are legally obliged to do so, then they would hold a right of recovery against you...whilst not repairing your car!

I'm not well at the moment but i'll look into the ecu identification thing over the next day or so...

[Riz_RS4]

I'm not well at the moment

get well soon mate [img]images/graemlins/pftroest.gif[/img]

Riz [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[Jon]

Just spoke to NIG (who are owned by churchill, who in turn are now owned by HBOS/Direct line)and there official response in regard to actively looking to see if a vehicle was chipped was "we can't be bothered, were too busy to be bothering about things like that".

I know this is not a definative answer, but it shows that they know it's a losing battle to try and get out of a claim via the chip route. They are spending there money on combating true fraud.

currently the amount of money paid into the MIB (the pot you reffered to!)stands at approximately 5% of your premium

[Dippy]

They are spending there money on combating true fraud.

Fraud is fraud. Perhaps you mean 'higher priority' fraud?

[Jon]

yes as in taking policies out to earn a living from them (it does happen), rather than a little bending of the rules.

[Golich]

In this instance what would happen is they would pay the 3rd party as they are legally obliged to do so, then they would hold a right of recovery against you...whilst not repairing your car!

...

That's the bit that would hurt...Aye it make you think.. [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Top effort for satisfying my curiosity Jon [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[Joules]

The increase in premium from my S4 to RS4 was £50 and after advising the MTM Stage 3 another £41. Hence overall probably £200 above my std S4 policy with Bell Direct.

By the way if you buy a car mapped/chipped then the previous owner may well of informed their insurers. Now that insurers are linked surely this would become a std and easy check??


Joules