Was God an astronaut?

[am8631]

You still have not explained who created God. As you put it, any complex organism/living creature/ entity capable of thought must have been created - I would say that God is pretty complex so who created the creator?!?!

Have you read the God Delusion by Richard Harris? He puts forward many many good arguments to disprove the existence of a 'higher being'?

I dont mind people having beliefs, but to put sooooo much faith in a book without questioning it to me is rediculous!! Imagine trying to pull that one now - The Book of Andy, get into it or die!!

Andy Mac

[Dom81]

No thats was directed at S4- Tan for bringing such a degrading link to this site

What link have I missed? I hope it was on a par with the legendary m*n getting b*mmed by a h*rse one!

[GardinerG]

You don't need some ponced up diety telling you what is basically just common sense. "Don't kill" really, ow, why not? Jeesh. This world would be a much better place if we all tried to behave altruistically, after all due to religion millions of people have died/been murdered over the millennia (and are still being murdered). "Thou shalt not kill" Churches are the source of most of the intolleranace and Evil in our World.

I say it's all bollocks. Just imagine all the ants on this planet worshiping you, would you want it? Would you even notice? Would you care if one ant prayed to you every night asking for help?

Ever stop to think that we (the human race) were just an experiment gone wrong? Within a blink of time we will have gone and the multiverse will go on. All it will take is one slight change and we're all fooked and no amount of praying will change it. By all means stick your head in the sand and pretend there is something out there that will change your fate. When you are dead I'm sure you will find out what it's like to be dead, I imagine that it's probably something similar to before you were conceived. I'm not going to be blackmailed into giving to some bent greedy church just because of some imaginary Heaven or Hell. I'd rather give to the homeless and sick and make their lives that little bit better.

The best way to have peace in our time - disband all religions and maybe, just maybe spend the time making the world a better place rather than converting others to those blinkered view(s) on life. And convert all the churches into homes for the needy or hospitals.

I'd rather spend my time altruistically using my own common sense tempered with a good dose of reality.

[S4INT]

You don't need some ponced up diety telling you what is basically just common sense. "Don't kill" really, ow, why not? Jeesh. This world would be a much better place if we all tried to behave altruistically, after all due to religion millions of people have died/been murdered over the millennia (and are still being murdered). "Thou shalt not kill" Churches are the source of most of the intolleranace and Evil in our World.

I say it's all bollocks. Just imagine all the ants on this planet worshiping you, would you want it? Would you even notice? Would you care if one ant prayed to you every night asking for help?

Ever stop to think that we (the human race) were just an experiment gone wrong? Within a blink of time we will have gone and the multiverse will go on. All it will take is one slight change and we're all fooked and no amount of praying will change it. By all means stick your head in the sand and pretend there is something out there that will change your fate. When you are dead I'm sure you will find out what it's like to be dead, I imagine that it's probably something similar to before you were conceived. I'm not going to be blackmailed into giving to some bent greedy church just because of some imaginary Heaven or Hell. I'd rather give to the homeless and sick and make their lives that little bit better.

The best way to have peace in our time - disband all religions and maybe, just maybe spend the time making the world a better place rather than converting others to those blinkered view(s) on life. And convert all the churches into homes for the needy or hospitals.

I'd rather spend my time altruistically using my own common sense tempered with a good dose of reality.

Couldn't agree more, spot on.

[CliveH]

Mr Blower - thank you for another lengthy response.

I will deal with each of these in turn, in order to make it more readable for those who wish to follow it.

Pre trib is what I believe in for the following reasons. In John 14 Jesus said he was going to heaven to prepare a place for us and he would return for us.

Thanks for the explanation, but what makes your version any more acceptable than the other 3? I'm sure the followers of the other beliefs will have similarly plausible explanations. Why does your faith have such a divergence of beliefs on this subject?? Why can't someone in authority just ask God for some clarification and stop all this speculation and disparity of beliefs?

[CliveH]

Is God a terrorist?

This is flawed logic if ever I did see it. I will ask you a question. If you continually break Gods laws and his commandments, how would you expect God to deal with you?

No flawed logic at all. I gave you a list of quotes - your own words - which can only be described as acts of terror. There is no logic to follow - they are simply examples (of your own). Can you explain these examples otherwise?

I'd prefer not to deal with the 'politician's answer' (to answer a question with another question), however here goes :

Now your question is quite clearly flawed logic - you start with the assumption that God exists. What proof do you have of this?

Next, you expect me to believe in God, then expect me to accept all of the 10 commandments as reasonable and to obey them. But lets just ignore all that, and assume that I might do, then my answer is simple : I would expect a sympathetic and 'loving' god to treat me with compassion, understanding, and forgiveness (isn't that what your bible teaches somewhere?? You should be able to quote the verses). I would not expect to be 'zapped', 'destroyed', or given some crippling illness or disease.

Here we have yet another example of a threat of terrorism (your words again) :

The tribulation period(7 years) is a time of pure wrath, where God will utterly destroy those who rejected the gospel of Christ in favour for their own lusts.

[philipwalker]

Standby for a true story…….

Bloke called into the garage a few months back, after the usual "how’s it going" etc. He said "I am getting a new Porsche in a few weeks"
I replied, "Tidy, have you won the lottery or something" as he not working
"No I had a calling the other night, the lord said I will be coming into a lot of money, so I have placed a £1000 deposit on my credit card" he responded.

Needless to say after a few months there is no 996 on his driveway, maybe it is on back order with the factory?

The lord works in strange and mysterious ways............

[GardinerG]

The tribulation period(7 years) is a time of pure wrath, where God will utterly destroy those who rejected the gospel of Christ in favour for their own lusts.

What about those who just get on with their lives and help those around them out of respect for other members of the human race without praying to something that doesn't exist (or if it does has a serious case of the double standards)? Thou shalt not kill / Smite thee down with all my wrath - I take it you can appreciate the irony? Sure blame it all on the Devil, and while you are at it blame the crusades on the devil too, etc, etc. It just strikes me that they are both as bad as each other. Wish they would have it out and kill each other, life would be alot simpler without them. Just my 2p as usual.

[S4TAN]

This is flawed logic if ever I did see it.

How you can possibly use the word logic in any of your posts is beyond contempt! Come on man; you believe that dinosaurs were on the Ark .... you even believe in an Ark! You believe that a man was born of a virgin, that a man walked on water, that a man turned water into wine, healed lepers with a touch, fed 5000 people with a couple of loaves of bread and 5 fishes, rose from the dead - where the hell is the logic in any of that??? There isn't any. You, Blower, quite simply DO NOT know the meaning of the word logic as you have most clearly demonstrated in all of your posts. I suggest you stop associating the word logic with your beliefs - they are diametrically opposed, and extremely incongruous.

God doesn't make mistakes but man needs to make mistakes otherwise how would he learn? The mistakes that would have been made if man had not sinned and followed Gods law would be such a minor in comparision to the utterly foolishness he gets up to today.

If you want an example of REAL logic I'll give you one: In an earlier post you stated that God exists outside of time and space: I then furthered the point to say that if God exists outside of time and space then logically It would know the entire past and future of the Universe simultaneously (It is God after all!), and, more specifically, the history of mankind right from its moment of conception to demise- therefore It would know before It had even created mankind that mankind would sin (because, as you say, God doesn't make mistakes) - ergo It must have created mankind with exactly that purpose in mind - i.e. to sin (otherwise why create man at all when It already knew that man would sin?) - thusly (and this is the only logical conclusion to the argument) God created mankind in the full knowledge that mankind would sin. Now, given that God punishes sinners it must logically follow then that the only possible reason God created us is to punish us. Your God is a cruel sadist Blower. QED.

God not only punishes people for doing wrong because he is just, but he also punishes because the behavior humans carry out is destructive to not only their on lives but to others.

As explained in my previous point: God knew that man would behave like this already though didn't It? But still created man nonetheless! So; yet more logical proof that your God is sadistic and cruel (remarkably human traits - smacks of anthropomorphism again doesn't it?!)

Now that logic is infallible Blower. It is also a point I made in an earlier post, and one that you did not respond to. Why did you not respond? I'll tell you - because you simply can't. Your arguments are based on fairy stories that even most well educated children wouldn't believe nowadays (thankfully!) - you argue from a standpoint that takes it as a given that the Bible is true and that your God exists. This is your fundamental error. What makes your God more credible than that of the Jews or the Muslims, or the Zoroastrians for that matter!?

You make grand statements like "your name has to be written in the book of life" .... what book of life? No such thing bloody exists! You say I am a "satanist" - again; fatally flawed logic: Given that I do not believe in your God it therefore follows that I cannot believe in Satan! (Satan being one of Gods fallen archangels).

It's so bloody convenient to come out with these ambiguous phrases like "the bible gives you indications to a degree of how some things work in heaven, though not all things are revealed" .... of course they're not all bloody revealed - if they were they could be disproven very quickly. It's a cop out of the highest order - it's the same as that dreadful old expression "God moves in mysterious ways" - an expression that is constantly used by those of a religious bent to brush over the things they can't explain when subjected to even the most gentle questioning. How bloody convenient!

Well if you don't believe that he was the son of God, how do you explain the miracles he performed, where did they come from? Also why was his body never found? The tomb has been found where he was place but no body. Where is it. Mummified bodies from bc periods have been dug up in relatively good condition in all parts of the world, we should have at least found bones in the tomb but nothing, why?

THERE WERE NO BLOODY MIRACLES! Where is your proof???????? GIVE US PROOF! (and proof in the form of answers like "the bible says so" simply DO NOT COUNT!)

Why no body of Jesus found? His body was stolen - simple, then it rotted away. Many more people have died on this planet than the numbers of mummified corpses found - so where are they all Blower? Where they resurrected too??? And how do you know for sure that the tomb of which you speak is the one Jesus was supposedly placed in? Again: Proof please!

There is NO logic to be found anywhere in any of your posts Blower - merely the risible and desultory rantings of a delusional and sadly mislead human being.

[CliveH]

Falsehoods:

This simply means as I explained before that he is not a mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ is the only mediator, the only route into heaven and the only one who men should be confessing their sins to.

I think this is in answer to my question about what you meant by saying that "the Pope is a fake". My question was : "a fake what?".

You haven't answered the question, but instead you have asserted that Jesus Christ is the mediator between man and god. A brave assertion when you have offered no proof as to the existence of God or Jesus Christ.

[s4woody]

AMEN....ooops sorry

[GardinerG]

Oh but Clive, it's in the bible so it MUST be true!



Given that it's in man's nature to lie, how can you expect the bible to be true?

[S4TAN]

AMEN....

Even that expression was nicked from the ancient Egyptians!

[CliveH]

Well, Julian seems to have beaten me to it with the other points - couldn't have put it better myself mate

So I will only deal with the following :

No thats was directed at S4- Tan for bringing such a degrading link to this site, not you Clive.

No - check back at your post - it was clearly directed at me ("Pray, stop doing your wickedness, turn from your evil practices")

S4- tan, gone up to heaven? Yeah right. Your name has to be written in the book of life to gain entry through the gates, he is a satanist, so his name is in the book of death, thats how I know that he hasn't been to heaven.

You clearly don't know S4TAN at all. If you did, you would recognise him as a decent chap with decent values, would do anything for you and, as you can see, has a very in-depth knowledge of the subject due to his extensive research.

[CliveH]

Actually, there are a couple of other points which haven't been dealt with.

Your allusions to so called terrorism do not wash.... Unbelievable, thats like coming into court and not expect the judge ro pass sentence on you for breaking the law, is the judge a terrorist now because he has to exact the law and do what is right to protect criminals from others?

They don't need to wash - they're not allusions, they're direct quotes from you!

As for your court analogy, this one doesn't wash - of course a judge passes sentence, which he does in accordance with the rules laid down by statute and precedence. The judge is not a terrorist because he does not simply 'zap', 'destroy', or hand out some other random sentence that you believe your god does. Admittedly, there are some jurisdictions which have retained some barbaric punishments, but in most countries the sentence is in proportion to the crime.

Where your argument is really flawed, of course, is that it is based on the presumption that god's laws are valid and should be obeyed

Maybe people might fear God if he revealed himself fully to them because he might not look like anything we have seen before, maybe because if he spoke, the whole earth would shake. It is simply because of his attributes, not because of terrorism.

You have chosen to avoid my allusion to another possibility here - dare I put forward the hypothesis that perhaps god does not reveal himself because he doesn't exist...??


Oh, and you still haven't told us who you think created your god...