Advice needed regarding an accident please

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maximus4
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Post by maximus4 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:07 pm

Alps,
Not wanting to be the bearer of bad news, but traffic cameras don’t generally record (I have some knowledge with traffic/police cctv systems) cctv from BP will show nothing unless it was right next to the forecourt it will probably be on a 3 second delay as well and they wont let you view it. Your insurance company might be able too if they can be arsed..
I feel for you mate. You could always go pay him and his car a visit..
:wink:
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Alps
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Post by Alps » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:11 pm

Maximus, if that is the case I think I'm done for :( Although, my only ray of hope would then be the fact that the accident happened literally 2 - 3 yards from the pull in to the BP garage. I'm certain/hope they would have a camera aimed at the entrance and exit of the garage for security reasons.
01 RS4, Milltek, Dahlback Racing rears, RS6 fronts and a few bits to be added.

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Alps
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Post by Alps » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:10 pm

UPDATE:

Well, as expected it turns out that this guy is claiming personal injury too! His insurance co called me up asking for details and said their client wishes to claim for his personal injuries!!!

Now, there is no way this t1t has any injuries. I have never seen anyone move so fast after an accident as he did when he ran round to grab his camera!!!

I called my insurance company to tell em that this guy is pulling a fast one but they didnt seem too concerned! Im assuming this guy would need some kinda medical proof? Although, Im sure its not too difficult for a dr to write up a sick note!!!

What a W*NKER :x
01 RS4, Milltek, Dahlback Racing rears, RS6 fronts and a few bits to be added.

Also, as I hate driving, my toy to play with - a Honda CBR F Sport

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derdle
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Post by derdle » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:32 pm

I think you need to advise your insurance company that in your opinion the claimant is committing fraud, and emphasise the point. As far as the video evidence in concerned, neither the local council nor the garage should let you see this footage as it breaks the Data Protection Act, however, the police can view this footage if they feel it could provide evidence to detect a crime (the fraud). Since it is the insurance company that could be de-frauded, they have to report the crime rather than you.

Ask if his insurance company has used a lie detector on his telephone calls (amny of them do nowadays to detect and prevent fraud) and ask if they have checked if he has made similar claims in the past.

Ask the insurance company what injuries he is seeking compensation for and then see if you can video him somehow going about his normal day to day life as if he is uninjured.

I think the insurance companies don't give a t*ss if the claim is under a grand?

If all your contact with your insurance company has been by phone till now, it might be a good idea to write to them (recorded delivery) setting out your viewpoint of the accident and your suspicions of his fraudulent behaviour. Be concise and eloquent and clearly set out all the points you need to make (remember half the people at the insurance company may be drongoes and won't understand long words or sentences).

It's a-holes like this that drive up insurance premiums and uncaring or "can't be ar*ed" insurance companies that push them up further!

Have you checked this website/forum for his registration plate... http://www.betterdrivingplease.com/Reports.asp ?
Paul
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derdle
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Post by derdle » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:53 pm

Are you watching the Channel 4 prgramme about fraudulent insurance claims on now??
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Post by MCB » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:43 am

Alps mate sorry to hear about all this agro - god you need it don't you.

Derdle has good advice, you need to write to your insurers and spell out what happened and tell them in no uncertain terms that you will not be held accountable for this accident.

Eons ago a similar thing happened to me, following a prat through town looking for an address/building you know the score constantly braking - slowing down, I would not of minded normally but this guy should of got out and walked. Anyway I lost my patience after - maybe half a mile and sounded the horn - then tried to overtake him and he basically stopped looking for a building and decided he was going to go out of his way to piss me off!

In the end he started to pull off the road into - I cant remember a driveway/forecourt whatever and just as his front wheels were off the road he slammed his brakes on and I went into the back of him.

Despite reams of correspondence with my insurance company they paid out and I lost my NC bonus, I was fairly young at the time and this hurt the pocket substantially - not withstanding the fact that I had to pay to get my car repaired.

I asked my boss if I could have a chat with his lawyer who was a fairly famous guy - specialised in protecting wealthy people who basically drove to fast - this was eons ago remember and these guys weren't dangerous or anything just enthusiastic drivers.

To cut the story short as I may be rambling I ended up taking my insurers to court, as far as I was concerned they had failed in their duty to me and at the hearing the judge agreed.

So Alps obviously hope it does not come to that for you.

And good luck with this hassle.

PS: Good looking sig their Clive got anymore - purely for artistic purposes you understand. :lol:
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CliveH
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Post by CliveH » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:00 am

MCB wrote: PS: Good looking sig their Clive got anymore - purely for artistic purposes you understand. :lol:
Paul - I can't claim any credit for that - I pinched it from the S2forum, but I have noticed that someone else on here has 'adopted' it...btw, yours is getting a bit 'last Christmas'... :lol:

Back to the thread :

Alps - I can't add anything to the good advice given above. Stick with it - don't let the scumbag get away with it.

Did you get anywhere with the 'reporting a cabby route', or would you rather not say on here?
Clive

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BRETTCOLLINS
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Post by BRETTCOLLINS » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:44 am

I take it he will not be working too, so will be claiming for that. would be checking to see. ( friend at cab office with camera...)

where in london is it?
if is east london let me know.

brett
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Alps
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Post by Alps » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:01 am

Thanks again guys for the advice. I'm gonna go get some brekkie and then draft up a detailed and firm letter to my insurance company stating what I know, and what I think they should do - as they are also a victim in this.

Fingers crossed :) Now, before I get caught on here, and get into trouble at work (last thing I need) gotta go.............................
01 RS4, Milltek, Dahlback Racing rears, RS6 fronts and a few bits to be added.

Also, as I hate driving, my toy to play with - a Honda CBR F Sport

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Alps
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Post by Alps » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:14 pm

Guys, if you dont mind, could you please have a quick read of my letter to the insurance co. before I send it out. If there's anything I should further submit or omit, please let me know.

For legal reasons, Ive left out names and locations of the incident.

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am writing in regard to an accident I was involved in, which I have already informed you of via telephone and have also completed the Claim Form which you kindly emailed me.

I have spoken to several ****** Representatives regarding the accident and have told them every time that the other party is committing a fraud.

Please allow me to give you full details of the incident and also explain why I believe the other party is attempting to defraud both yourself and me.

The accident took place on **/01/08 at approximately ****pm. The location of the impact was on the corner of *********** and ****** – heading West Bound on The **********.

The incident began on ******* Road, where there are a set of traffic lights. I was in the left hand lane, indicating to turn left onto *********. The left lane is for all traffic turning left or going straight onto ******* Road. The right hand lane at this section is for right hand turns only, onto ****** Road.

As the lights changed I moved off. But in my right hand lane a car was drifting too close to my car. I warned the driver by sounding my horn. But just as I was turning left this driver began to turn left from their position in the right hand lane. I again sounded my horn in warning as the driver edged very close to me and to be safe I slowed down – I must have been travelling at approximately 5 MPH. At this point the other driver accelerated and as soon they were past me they cut in front of me with little to no space between us and slammed on the brakes for no apparent reason what-so-ever. I had also been looking at the road ahead of me as I went round the corner and there were no other vehicles or hazards that would have forced the driver to apply his brakes so erratically and dangerously. It was at this point that my car hit the rear of his car. There was absolutely no way of me stopping in time due to the manner in which he carried out the reckless manoeuvre and the way in which he needlessly and dangerously applied his brakes.

Immediately following the impact I made sure the car was safe and made sure that my Wife and Mother were OK – which they were, and then safely got out of my car to make sure the passenger/s in the other car were OK. But the driver, Mr ******, of the other car got out of his car and walked to the passenger side of his car, where he got out a camera and began taking pictures of the incident... and me. I fully appreciate that this is something which should be done, if the means are available, at some point in such incidents, but surely not so soon after the initial impact. I asked Mr ***** if he was OK but he refused to speak to me. But judging by the way he ran around his car to the passenger side and they way in which he was running around taking pictures, he was perfectly OK. Mr ***** had NO signs of any injuries what-so-ever. My wife tirelessly attempted to gather witnesses to the incident, but it seems that no one saw what happened.

At this point I knew that this seemed to be an incredibly suspect incident due to the way in which Mr ***** had carried out the manoeuvre that led to the impact, and my suspicions were increased by the manner in which Mr ***** was behaving following the incident. I therefore called the police to request assistance. But the police refused to attend as there were no injuries.

As the cars were causing a hazard to passing traffic I requested that once Mr ****** had completed taking his pictures we should pull into a ***** Petrol Station, which was a matter of 2-3 yards away. Mr **** refused to acknowledge me. But after a little persuasion, that we were at a dangerous position, both of us drove into the ****** Petrol Station. I asked him why he had pulled off such a dangerous manoeuvre and why he had applied his brakes so harshly and needlessly. But Mr ****** only reply to all my questions was “I have done nothing”. The only time he changed his response was when he asked me to fill in my contact and insurance details.



Dear Sir / Madam, in respect to what I have detailed above, I truly and sincerely believe that Mr ****** is attempting to defraud both yourself and me. From a first-person perspective to the incident, and the manner in which Mr ***** carried out the manoeuvre and his behaviour following the incident I can see no clear logic or reason why he should have done what he did, nor behave in the manner in which he did. I am not an aggressive or intimidating person so he cannot offer the excuse of aggression or intimidation. To this I am more than happy to provide you with a character reference. Also, I am in no way a reckless or dangerous driver, which can be seen in my driving history – which you have.

At the point where the incident took place are several traffic cameras and one CCTV camera. I have spoken to the police regarding the traffic camera’s, and have also spoken to the owners of the other camera’s to ask how I could obtain footage from them. I was advised that the request for the footage has to be made to both the police and owners of the CCTV camera from the insurance company. Therefore, to prove all of the above, I ask you to please request footage from these cameras. The details of the locations of the camera’s are:

Camera 1: At the traffic lights on ********, joining onto *******, London, ****. The cameras face the traffic on ******, and these cameras will show that Mr ****** was in the incorrect lane to turn left onto ******. They will also show him driving “without due care and attention” by the manner in which he was drifting dangerously to the traffic in the left lane.

Camera 2: On ************, at traffic lights facing the ********** Road *****. These cameras will show how Mr ***** used the outside lane to dangerously turn left. And more importantly, they will show how he dangerously cut in front of me and then needlessly and again dangerously applied his brakes. They will also show how well he was moving, which will prove that he did not suffer any injuries in the accident.

Camera 3 &4: At the ****** Petrol Station, Corner of ****** and ****** and the ****** car showroom at the same junction. These cameras may show the entire incident and behaviour of Mr *****.

If you are able to obtain any footage from the camera’s I am certain that the attempt of fraud by Mr ***** will be clearly and absolutely evident.

I urge you to contact the police in relation to this entire matter as I am certain they too will be interested as fraud is a criminal offence.

I also urge you to confirm Mr ***** alleged injuries by evaluating independent medical records. And, if need be, to use any legal means necessary to ensure he is not carrying out any tasks which an “injured” person should not be. I believe that many top insurance companies use “lie detector tests” via telephone to attempt to prove someone is lying. If you use this method I would be willing to undergo this test, and I would hope you would also use this on Mr ********

I have taken several pictures to show the damage on my car. Judging by the speed the incident took place, and the minimal damage on both my car and Mr *****, I cannot see how any injuries could possibly have occurred.

I respectfully ask you to please look carefully into this entire matter as I will not be held accountable for something I am not guilty of – and at the same time, I do not see why you also have to be party to fraud. I believe all the evidence is available to prove what has happened during the entirety of this incident.
01 RS4, Milltek, Dahlback Racing rears, RS6 fronts and a few bits to be added.

Also, as I hate driving, my toy to play with - a Honda CBR F Sport

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rikrose
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Post by rikrose » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:19 pm

Alps wrote:Immediately following the impact I made sure the car was safe and made sure that my Wife and Mother were OK � which they were,
I would change this to read:
Immediately following the impact, I first made sure that my passengers - my wife and mother - were uninjured.

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derdle
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Post by derdle » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:43 pm

Further thoughts ... whilst driving home I realised that the toerag had actually overtaken you. Somewhere in the Highway Code (sorry you'll have to go out and buy one now) it mentions about the overtaker being responsible (or similar). Check it out and if it helps, quote the relevant sections/paragraphs verbatim (stating.."Section xx of The Highway Code states blah blah blah" and as such Mr bollockbrain was driving in breach of the Highway Code.

I know it helped me with a no fault accident claim 10/12 years ago.

Paul
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Huge Grin :biggrin3: If you dont "do it now" you never will.

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travs
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Post by travs » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:12 pm

Alps - first, sorry to read this. A few years ago I had a woman reverse into me whilst I was parked behind her at the side of a road. I took her to court as she claimed she wasn't there, then she lied in court, provided a false alibi and witness and got off. I can never trust this system again and also should say the following:

1) From the guy's reaction to the incident, he certainly seems to be used to having accidents.

2) Can anyone confirm whether this guy had a right to take a picture of Alps? In fact, Alps would have a legal right to any pictures taken if they are to be used in any ensuing legal battle so make sure you request those if it comes to it.

3) Don't wait on the insurance companies yourself. Their dicking around may cause the videos to be destroyed by the time they're requested. My above accident happened in 2002, the court case was 2005 because she kept delaying and the insurance company/solicitors didn't push.

4) Did I read correctly that the damage to yours is on the left-side of the front? If that is so, can you recall if the damage to his is on the left rear of his car? That might help to indicate that that he had just appeared from your right before slamming on the brakes.

5) If its fraud you might want to consider whether this guy is claiming all he is earning. Probably worth mentioning him to the HMRC anonymous hotline.

6) My dad had an accident a few years back, where he stopped behind a Royal Mail van as it was stopped in the road. It then reversed into him. My dad spoke to the guys and they said to call the office and they would sort it all out as they admitted it was their fault. When he called, the driver had said my Dad just drove into the back of them. Unfortunately, it took my Dad informing them he had a witness to the event for them to pay out.
He didn't. He had a friend he knew that my Dad was being conned and was prepared to help out. He was ashamed that he had to go down this route but, bearing what had happened to him and my experience too, I would fully appreciate someone doing so to get some justice in this day and age.

6) And if you want to get back at him, call the police and report that you've just seen his car being stolen.

I know not all of the above is entirely the correct thing to do, its just what I feel needs to be done nowadays in a system that is not properly managed and open to far too much manipulation.

Best of luck with it all - will be interested to read what happens, but CHASE EVERYTHING up like a mad dog. Write a letter every day until you get a response - absolutely without fail. Be an a**hole to them until they do what's required justo get you off their back. Good luck

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JohnRet.
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Post by JohnRet. » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:38 pm

Alps wrote:*letter*
Reads well to me, if you wanted to add that the offence is actually 'Fraud by False Representation Contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006'.

Adds a bit of beef.

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JohnRet.
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Post by JohnRet. » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:39 pm

And if you want to read the statute: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pd ... 035_en.pdf

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