Advice needed regarding an accident please

[Alps]

Lads, I'm gonna try and get through this thread without swearing or cursing... but if I fail please forgive me

I've just had the most frustrating accident, which most definitely wasn't my fault (thankfully no injuries). Im fact, I'm pretty certain the guy I crashed into premeditated the crash. But I need some advice from you guys as to what, if anything, I can do to prove the accident wasnt my fault.

Bare with me on the following explanation:

I was sitting at traffic lights at a cross roads. I was turning left and had my left indicator on, and was in the left hand lane. There are only 2 lanes here. The left lane is for left turn and straight ahead. The right hand lane is a RIGHT ONLY.

There was a lot of traffic in the left lane. As the lights changed I moved ahead, BUT an impatient guy who wanted to turn left but just didnt want to wait in the traffic decided to use the right hand lane and cut in front of me.

But as I didnt allow him to do so, he waited until we both reached the point where we turned and he took the outside lane, put his foot down until he was past me, and then as soon as he was past me he cut in front with little or no gap between us and then SLAMMED his brakes down. All along I was horning to let him know I was by his side... and that I was annoyed.

Im sure you all can guess what happened next... I ended up hitting his rear. Thankfully not too much damage. But thats not the point. The bloomin (that dont count as swearing )law has it that the person who shunts the rear is always at fault

The guy got out of the car, with a camera in his hand and started snapping away. I was asking if everyone was alright. He had no care at all other than to snap away. I then told him that we should move the cars so as people could get past. Eventually he understood what I was saying and we pulled into a petrol station.

At no point did he speak to me or look at me other than to ask me to write down my details. He even took a mug shot of me. (Oh its getting so hard not to swear and curse his... ... ... ... )

The damage on the cars will prove nothing at all for me as I have a big dent and damage on the left side of my bumper and bonnet. And he has only damage on the middle of his bumper.

My only slim bit of hope is that where the accident took place there are some traffic camera's. Now, if my insurance co can get a hold of the tapes and they show his initial manoeuvre where he cut around my car, and then hit the brakes just in front of me, then maybe that will prove my innocence.

The guy is a registered cab driver (not black cab - but those VW Sharans that do the airport runs etc). He was absolutely arrogant and obnoxious and would not respond to any of my questions.

I remember reading a little while back about people who slam their brakes down just so as the person behind slams into them, and they then claim off them. I seriously feel this is what may have happened here I have only ever had 1 crash in my life and that was when I first passed almost 15 years ago! ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[s4woody]

hi alps i hope your ok..cars can be mended..i hope you took his details..now if it was a licenced mini cab he should have had a green disc in the rear and front windows..go onto the public carriage office website and report his arse using his registration as a ref point..make sure you tell them what happened and how abusive he was calling your names etc etc and that you cant believe that a licenced mini cab driver conducts himself in that manner..
then tell your insurance what happened and make sure they understand that your not paying a penny out of your pocket because of his actions...
and i hope your whiplash gets better but you mite have to see the doctor about that...remember..its a 2way street...

[JohnRet.]

I know hindsight as a great thing, but did you get any witness details from the vehicles behind you?

It's not likely that your insurance companies will side with either you or him 100% without independent corroboration.

There is definitely a 'without due car and attention' aspect to his driving though, although like I said, without willing witnesses this too would be hard to prove and it may be a case of biting the bullet.

Plus you've already pretty much stated that you could have let him into the gap (Even though he was driving like a tool, that's the annoying thing).

Anyway, hope you get it sorted and without too much pain.

You could always consider a civil claim against him which 'on the balance of probabilities' would come out in your favour. I take it he supplied you with his name, address and registration number?

Go here: http://www.askmid.com/askmid.aspx and see if he's insured!

[Siena]

Alps, just one question - why didn't you just let him go? By being stubborn, you've put yourself in a bit of a sticky situation, and got a dent in your S4.

Yes, he was wrong, but sometimes, it's best to just let it lie.

There's a saying - "If you lose you life, you won't be around to claim right of way, drive carefully, and arrive safely".

I hope you've learnt your lesson, and I hope things work out ok for you.

[Alps]

Thanks for the help guys.

Woody, I saw a disc in his front window, which I'm assuming was his licence. I defo gonna report his arse simply for the fact that the way he was driving would have been bad enough for a normal driver - but for a licenced cab driver, who carries people everyday for a living was wholely unacceptable!

Johnret, there were loads of witnesses - unfortunately when I went round asking if they saw the accident they all shrugged their shoulders and said "sorry, no".

Husky, I fully 100% agree with you mate about just letting em go. And that's pretty much the only reason Im kicking myself for it tonight. Normally I would have just let the t1t go... but I think the way he did it just peed me off big time.

But I well and truely believe that this guy wanted to be shunted from behind - no doubt. I mean, once he did cut in front of me there was absolutely no reason for him to slam his brakes on... no reason what-so-ever.

My only hope is that my insurance company will ask for tapes from the traffic camera's, as if the tapes recorded what happened it's going to be blatantly clear that this was not my fault.

Fingers crossed. And thanks again guys for the help and shoulders to cry on

[CliveH]

Alps - sorry to hear about this incident.

Sounds like your only hope is the traffic camera records - good luck with that.

I take it there were no passengers in his taxi?

[GrahamS4]

You drove into the back of him. You don't weant to hear it but even if he stopped deliberatly, it's your fault. Why couldn't you stop? Following too fast or too close or both?

I think this is what you will be faced with from him/the law.

[Alps]

Yup Graham. That's gonna 100% be their argument. Even though he literally gave me no chance to brake as he cut me up and then braked. Clive, you're right, my hope is in those camera's.

I feel like such a t1t for not letting him go I've always said that 2 t1ts don't always make good fun - the t1ts could belong to a right saggy minger!!!!

[S4TAN]

You don't weant to hear it but even if he stopped deliberatly, it's your fault. Why couldn't you stop? Following too fast or too close or both?

That simply does NOT make sense Graham: if someone cuts you up within inches/feet, no matter what the speed and especially with consideration to the circumstances described by Alps, and then slams their brakes on once they're in front of you for NO reason then you're pretty fucked; you're going to hit them - it's obvious this prick was looking for a claim.

Alps - this arsewipe should count himself lucky that you didn't beat him into a bloody pulp.

[s4woody]

out of interest Alps what car was it..pm me the details..i know alot of mini cab companys and if he was 1 of there drivers..in the words of paz..his arse is grass..

[Alps]

Yup. The shunt up the rear is a pretty stupid law. Alas, it's all down to witness's.........

A mate of mine once got a little confused on The North Circular. He thought he saw a right turn in the middle of it so he slowed down and stopped. Put it into reverse and reversed into the car behind which was at stand still!!! Guess whose fault the insurers said it was???? Yup. The poor dude behind. The most shocking thing was that my mate said it was his fault too!!!!

Woody, I have the guys telephone number. Do you, or anyone else, think its adviseable for me to call him up to ask what company he drives for? Or would that hinder my case in any way?

S4tan, the arsewipe can defo count himself lucky in that I see myself as a pacifist - so that counts out chance of me beating him into a bloody pulp. Although, the way he was carrying on I was tempted to be an EX pacifist

I'm a skinny little sh1t... But as the line in Planes, Trains and Automobiles goes "She may be skinny, but she's strong. Her first baby come out side ways - she didn't scream, or nothin'" Well, in my case, we can just change the "she" part, and "baby" part. But I may be skinny, but Im strong and fast

Oh well, at least I can dream of pounding his face to a bloody pulp - that won't affect my pacifist'ism in anyway

[CliveH]

Can someone point me to the appropriate part of the legislation which deals with this "rear shunt law"...?

Unless I'm mistaken and it's buried away somewhere in the Stupid Logic Act, it is simply a reasonable assumption, made by insurers, that if someone collides with the rear of another vehicle, that it's the driver behind who's at fault.

Now for the most part, it is a reasonable assumption - ie the driver behind was driving too close to the one in front or wasn't paying attention to what was happening and braked too late.

That's all fine and dandy in most cases, but where someone reverses into another vehicle, jumps a red light, pulls out of a junction, cuts someone up, and the like, then the "reasonable assumption law" goes out the window.

The problem is : proof. In the absence of witnesses and/or camera evidence, insurers will invoke this principle. When I say "insurers", I'm referring to the car insurance industry at large. The insurance companies have have an understanding that, in the absence of any other evidence, the vehicle behind will be 100% at fault. But it doesn't stop there - if it goes to court, and you have the evidence, then proper justice should prevail.

There has been a growing number of these "involuntary rear shunt" incidents in recent years, and both the insurance industry and police are eventually getting wise to these jerks who position their old banger in front of yours, for example, approaching a roundabout where the way is clear and slam on the anchors hard at the last moment.

You may be skinny, Alps, but you're strong, and you should fight this one

[yorkie]

Explain it all to your insurance company but I suspect it will be deemed your fault as in relatively small claims I think they have some sort of agreement which gives no consideration to who is really to blame just the quickest (and easiest for them).

I was T-boned on a roundabout on a dual carriageway by someone turning right in the left hand lane without indicating, I was in the right hand lane going straight on - deemed to be my fault.

Wife was reversing out of space in supermarket car park, saw car coming so stopped with just about a foot sticking out, car ran into her and claimed for damage already there (no damage at all to wife's car) despite me writing to them saying it was a fraudulent claim her insurers deemed it to be her fault and paid out.

I'm sorry to say unless you have video evidence which they are prepared to bother looking at (weren't in wife's case car park had CCTV which she would have been on) you are on to a loser.

One of those "down to experience" things but at least you are ok.

[CliveH]

I think they have some sort of agreement which gives no consideration to who is really to blame just the quickest (and easiest for them).

They do - that's exactly what I'm referring to.

I was T-boned on a roundabout on a dual carriageway by someone turning right in the left hand lane without indicating, I was in the right hand lane going straight on - deemed to be my fault.

Exactly that happened to my son - fortunately, it wasn't far from home, and I turned up soon after the accident and took lots of pictures of the scene, including the road markings. Our insurance company adopted the usual stance. When I produced the evidence, they hesitated and then said "Oh, but you do realise that if you want to fight this one, you might have to go to court and give evidence?" Of course we would!! They eventually got the idea that we weren't going to back down and instructed lawyers. We won (the case was settled before the hearing).

Don't give up at the first hurdle Alps.

[S4TAN]

Oh well, at least I can dream of pounding his face to a bloody pulp - that won't affect my pacifist'ism in anyway

Probably the best course of action Alps.