S4 Upgrading

[DavidT]

I am thinking about upgrading my S4 and have done the usual searches, but which mod and from which supplier ?

This is my top five based on what I perceive to be the benefit / value for money of each.

1. Shortshifter (any) 200
2. Chip (AmD) 1000
3. Front Brakes (Porsche) 1500
4. Coil Over Suspension (H&R) 1000
5. Full exhaust (Milltek) 1500

I have no experience of any of these, so are they the right things to go for ?

Any input appreciated.


David

[johneroberts]

I am thinking about upgrading my S4 and have done the usual searches, but which mod and from which supplier ?

This is my top five based on what I perceive to be the benefit / value for money of each.


1. Shortshifter (any) 200
2. Chip (AmD) 1000
3. Front Brakes (Porsche) 1500
4. Coil Over Suspension (H&R) 1000
5. Full exhaust (Milltek) 1500

I have no experience of any of these, so are they the right things to go for ?

Any input appreciated.


David

Shortshift consider Tanoga or UCC/Stratmosphere
Chip AmD or REVO, MTM if you can afford it [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Suspension Bilstein/H&R/Eibach
Brakes AP/Porsche/Or Alcon
Exhaust Miltek/Seebring
Dump Valves Forge/Statmosphere
Air Filters K&N
Sorted
Jr

[Bushy]

I actually think you have listed the best set of options
My understanding is the H&R suspension is the best for the S4

AmD - no quibbles

Tanoga, fine UUC oK

Porshe front brakes

also cool

We really need Dippy or Joshie to comment as they have had alot of this work done

Maybe you could exchange notes at a meet [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Dippy]

David,

I have exactly all of these and am very happy with the results.

1) Based on what I read, the Tanoga is supposed to be the best shortshifter in terms of quality. However Scott at AmD talked me out of it because of the price. I don't know exactly what Scott fitted (probably UUC) but whatever it was it is great.

2) As I have written before, my main reason for going with AmD for chipping is because of their rolling road. I wanted to see 265bhp before the chip to prove that the car was healthy. Similarly I wanted to see the after torque curve to know that I got my money's worth. Personally I did not want to just have a chip fitted and assume that it was delivering the goods. However another advantage of AmD is that they can do a bespoke map for your car, which is what you MUST have for a full Miltek exhaust. Also I like to deal with a tuner who does ALL their own work, not just buy a chip from someone else (e.g. tuners who fit MTM in the UK).

I'm not sure why JR is recommending REVO at the moment, as I don't see that they have enough installed base to prove themselves yet.

3) Fitted cost of Porsche brakes is more like £2000. They are good (once the disks have been skimmed), but probably not enough to justify the price. I think that there are plenty of other brake kits which will be just as good but cheaper.

4) From what I have read, matching the coils and dampers is the most important part of an upgrade. So the coilover concept is great. I think the H&R's for the S4 are FANTASTIC, although I can't compare them to anything else (expect the stock suspension of course). AFAIK the H&R's are the most popular S4 suspension upgrade, especially in the US.

5) Don't bother with the cat-back alone. IMO it's the whole system or nothing. With the whole system and a custom map, the S4 will no longer suffer a tail-off of power at high revs - it will pull strongly to the redline. Based on my car the full Miltek is worth about an extra 30bhp and 30lbft at the peaks.

If you can get all this done at the same time from the same tuner (and IMO that ONLY means AmD or QuattroSports*) then you should be looking at a serious discount.

Cheers,
Dave

*However you DO need a special map to get the most out of the full Miltek and I don't think you'll get that with an MTM chip.

[Bushy]

I'm not sure why JR is recommending REVO at the moment, as I don't see that they have enough installed base to prove themselves yet.

I think JR is just being PC

*However you DO need a special map to get the most out of the full Miltek and I don't think you'll get that with an MTM chip.

To be totally true they give you a different plug in chip for the full exhaust system

So just AmD or MTM then [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[johneroberts]

I think JR is just being PC

Not sure what this means chaps [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
But methinks that Revo are or were APR and are using the same technology, so thats the reasoning behind it
Cheers
jr

[Dippy]

JR,

Looking at the REVO website I would say it is definitely different technology to what APR have offered. APR use an electronic module which needs to be attached to the ECU circuit board, and it's this module that allows program switching.

As far as I can tell the REVO method does not involve physical modification to the ECU at all - it's all done via the car's diagnostic port.

My only comment on the MTM chip is that it was still developed on a different car (and was it a Miltek exhaust or MTM's own?) and therefore may not exactly match your own. Whereas AmD tune the map to your car with your exhaust. To me this is still better.

Cheers,
Dave

[jeffw]

Well...

Mine has had

Short Shift from AmD
AmD re-map
HiSpec Monster 4-Pots with 335 x32 rotors
& the ANC Chassis Stabiliser.

I'm currently looking at either Leda or KW suspension because I want rebound & bump adjustment (on car) rather than fixed rate dampers. My aim is to have a set-up which is similair to the standard settings on it's softest and being able to adjust it for fast road or track work.

Cheers

Jeff

'99 S4

[Chins]

Always enjoy a good chip debate [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Some reasons for going MTM and not AMD might centre around MTM's installed base is so much bigger than AMD and hence have more experience. MTM also get closer access to the factory and codes. MTM export all around the world and AMD just serve little old blighty.

Revo - as John points out they are all ex APR. They have the technology AMD dont and appear to be ahead of the game.

Custom Remaps - Ive said it a hundred times, but that doesnt always guarantee a great job and consistency. Two AMD mapped TT with identical mods one running 21psi the other 18psi with obvious consequences.

I'd always agree that a before and after run is good, but my advise would be to use a 3rd party RR. Any RR result can be manipulated by the operator. I certainly did this when I chipped my S3.

Personally I'd be happy to go to either three for a conversion. I'd also add ABT to the list. They have close ties to Audi as well, with ABT modified cars sold at your local Audi dealership with warranty (TT Special Edition).

Jonathan

[Dippy]

Chin's comment about different psi's reminds me of another mod to consider (apart from new DVs and APR's bipipe or similar which I forgot too): A boost gauge.

Initially a boost gauge is great for checking that the increased boost is as expected (for an S4 peaking between 1.1 and 1.35 bar depending on how hard you're driving). However after that it's good for moderating driving. You have to accept that increasing the boost is shortening the lives of the turbos, so you can choose when and how much boost to use.

Furthermore a boost gauge is useful for the all-critical warm-up period. Again, by monitoring boost as well as engine revs, you can make sure that you are not stressing the turbos too much until the oil is hot enough.

And that leads me to my final point - the cool down of the turbos after a hard run. As a minimum the car should be idled for a minute or two, and a turbo timer is useful for this. Hence buying a combined boost gauge and turbo timer is great value for money.

On my car my turbo timer does not idle the engine, it forces the after-run coolant pump on. Thus I can safety lock the car and walk away. I'm used to it now, but after I first fitted it, it was so great to go to friends' houses and not have the piss taken out of me any more for sitting in my car for a few minutes after arriving!

[DavidT]

Thank you for posting all the information guys.

I have a shortlist which has more items than I started with ! so I have grouped them and included the additional questions I have.

All items include VAT and fitting. Please advise on any errors.


Power

AmD Chip 1000
Full Milltek exhaust 1500
Diverter valves 150 Which are the best ?
K&N Air Filter how much ?
APR bipipe how much ?
Boost gauge how much ?


Will I need any other hoses ?

What will the power and torque figures be with these modifications ?


Brakes

Porsche front 1900

Is there a good cheaper alternative to these because as dippy says, the price is hard to justify (Jeff) ?

Is there a need to do anything with the rear brakes ?


Suspension

H&R Coilover 1000, not too worried about the ride.

ANC chassis stabiliser – what are the benefits / cost of this (Jeff) ?


Other

Shortshifter 230 AmD do one with 20/30/40 adjustment. Is it OK ?

Wheels, how much difference will 8x18 wheels with 255 tyres make ?



Again, any input appreciated.

David

[jeffw]

HiSpec 335 x 32 Rotors, bells, fitting kit, 6 Pot Monster Billet Calipers, armoured hoses, DS2500 pads & fitting £1100. My set-up is holding up very nicely with no fade during a recent track day (which is a first) covering 175 miles on track.

ANC Chassis stabiliser makes the car feel much more together. It seems to allow the gearchange to be more 'snick, snick' rather than waving a stick in a bucket of paint feeling. It also helps the car turn-in (don't know why). Cost from AmD was £350 +fitting +VAT.

Hope that helps



Jeff

[DavidT]

Thanks Jeff, very helpful indeed, 1100 vs 1900 sounds like a plan, especially since you are happy with them for track use.

Is there a web site I can look them up on or supplier details please ?

Cheers,

David

[Golich]

DavidT,

Like you I plan to continue modding my S4. To date I've only had an AMD chip done complete with Hyperboost dump valves (DV) a must. I'm delighted with AMD's work.

I couldn't afford the the full exhaust system option and like one of the others I can't see how the CAT back option is going to produce a significant power increase that justifies £450. Especially if your stock exhaust has years of life left in it. However, replacing the CATs and the CAT back section does make sence. But pricey! I'm tempted to do what my mate did with his Fiat Coupe. He had a 3" straight through exhaust hand built from the turbo back with a replacement can made up for the CAT. He fits the CAT come MOT time. He had the whole lot made for £450 including a lifetime gaurantee. Now replacing his one CAT is a 15min affair. I believe it's not so easy on S4. But I'm going to look into this. The difference in how his turbo spools up and continues to Rev right to 7000RPM is very impressive.

I'm looking into the suspension right now. Like Jeff Wiltshire. I would prefer the total adjustment option. i.e. ride height as well as compression and rebound. (Jeff I'd be interesting in hearing how you get on with this.) Years ago I fitted a lowered suspension kit on an orion injection. The car looked and drove a hell of a lot better, but the road clearance was a bit of a pain sometimes. And the kit only lowered the car by approx 50mm. Watch those high kerbs when parking and rough roads, railway bridges and the other obvious obstacles. I'm awaiting prices and options.

Re boost gauge. I've been looking into this for some time now and agree with Dippy.

I was after a subtle discrete digital gauge that would fit inplace of some switch blanks I have on the centre console. One of the Lads on Audi world had a machinest make up such a shroud for a small gauge but he fitted a standard clock type gauge with a fair degree of effort involved. So I was delighted to see I could monitor my boost pressure with the VAG-COM but it looks like there could be issues regarding reporting the higher than stock pressure with a chipped car. I'm awaiting AMD's response.

However there is a new option from APR's american site. They have a NEW centre vent boost gauge. Their old one was cut into the vent and looked pretty untidy. This new one appears to cover the centre vent completely with a factory looking plastic moulding for $139 complete with everything. Very tempting for me.

Check it out at: http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/boost_gauge.html

Let us know how you get on.

[jeffw]

Davis

HiSpec are at http://www.hispecmotorsport.co.uk/

My remap at AmD produced 326BHP & 380 lb/ft

I'm still investigating the Suspension route but I may well get Leda http://www.ledasuspension.co.uk/ to do a custom job for me.

I must admit to being put off by the 6 hours labour and £1500+ for a full exhaust system....big dosh for 30 BHP


Jeff