S4 - Am I asking for trouble?

[wombar]

Hi All,

I'm in the process of looking for a new car and the S4 is potentially on my list, but after finding this forum and doing a massive amount of reading I'd like some input from you guys (the owners of these awesome cars).

Whilst I love the looks, the performance (everything basically) about these cars, I'm a little worried about the reliability of the turbos on the S4. I work from home so day to day running costs aren't a problem and insurance is surprisingly low for a car of this calibre (~£600).

However, I've read a few posts (actually quite a few posts) from people who have had their turbos die and the thought of spending a few grand on replacing the turbos really doesn't appeal, especially if I've only had the car for a month or two. So I guess my questions are as follows:

1) How reliable are these cars (especially the turbos)? As much as I'd like an S4 I can't afford to spend another £3k getting it fixed as soon as I buy it.

2) I presume the facelift car is the one to go for? I don't fancy having the exhaust manifold problem as soon as the car arrives.

I looked at Imprezas for a bit but want something that is more refined which is why I'm looking at S4's. I don't mind spending the money to keep something like this on the road(i.e regular oil changes and servicing) but I don't want to spend all my money on keeping the car going.

I've got about £8k to spend (though I can stretch up to £8.5K) which appears to be enough as I'm in no rush to jump in at the deep end. I'll quite happily spend at least 6 months looking for the perfect car.

[MarkB]

Mines still running the original turbo's and I've had it for over a year with no major problems.

I used to worry all the time about the turbo's but as long as you have access to about £2K if needed you should be able to get the car back on the road if the worst happens

[confusionhunter]

I think we need to make the distinction about high labour costs (maintainibility) and reliability of the turbos. The turbos arent any less reliable than say a golf GTI or any other 1.8T of which there are many thousands, the issue is IF they fail its an engine out job to replace them.

Obviously you would want to buy a car with a good service history, ideally from someone from here who is aware that you need to pressure test the car regularly to avoid leaks and ooverworking the turbos, and unfortunately some of it is down to blind luck.

Ive heard of cars with 150k on the original turbos and still going strong yet Ive heard of replacement turbos failing within 30k. But from my experience in reading this forum the percentage of people having turbo problems cant be anymore than 10% to 15%(????)(anyone care to comment????) considering the age and milage of the cars, thats not too bad. And TBH its not always a bad thing as then you can fit KO4s and have big power upgrades.... Im sure there are some members on here hoping for turbo failure

Having said that its fairly enevitable that the turbos are more likely to go than the solid engine.

[QuantumJohn]

Unfortunately no one can tell you if the turbos are going to be fine for the next x thousand miles.

Some people have had turbos go at 50K miles and others are still on original turbos at over 120K miles.

If you are really that worried buy a car from a dealer and get a warranty that covers the turbos or buy a warranty privately that does.

The factor that noramlly affects them is how the car has been looked after. If it has been serviced regularly and warmed up and cooled down sufficiently this helps to prolong their life.

This is why I prefer to buy privately and meet the previous owner rather than buy from a dealer who can spin you a story you want to hear. Check out the cars that come up for sale on this site.

Cheers,
John

[Blue_Thunder]

There are an ever increasing number of S4's for sale which have already had K04's installed. I'm guessing most people that do this will also replace the clutch, manifolds, etc. at the same time so that the engine doesn't need to come out again. Saying that, I think there is a general amount of turbo paranoia and scaremongering within the depths of this forum. I don't think buying an S4 is a game of russian roulette.

If you buy from one from a forum member here, you can be safe in the knowledge that they are at least aware of all the common faults, and therefore more likely to have rectified them throughout the course of their ownership. It's amazing the number of new owners you see on here that have bought cars with duff MAF's and DV's, implying that the previous owners were not even aware of some of the common (and easily rectifyable faults).

If you're not in a hurry to find a good example, you should have no problems. You've also found an excellent source of info which will help you decide what to look for (and what to avoid like the plague). Happy hunting!

[confusionhunter]

Saying that, I think there is a general amount of turbo paranoia and scaremongering within the depths of this forum. I don't think buying an S4 is a game of russian roulette.

And thats coming from someone who has just repaced their turbos and had obviously done a lot of post searching and investigation...

How are the KO4s?

[ZeroK66]

Try get an S4 with K04's ready fitted, its awful when they go, but when you do come out the other side with the extra power and no stress of turbo failure in the future - it is a good feeling. Apart from the turbo failing on these, they are pretty bomb proof. Pre-facelift cars have issues with front suspension, I wasted a few k on this on a previous car!

Ideally find a facelift car with K04's fitted, they do come about quite regular so shouldnt be a problem to find.

[wombar]

Thanks for the replies everyone, you've certainly helped ease some of my fears. I presume the K04's are classed as a mod and would need to be declared to whoever I insure the car with? I must admit I'm looking for a relatively hassle free car to run, obviously every car has it's advantages/disadvantages but I guess if I'm patient I should stand a decent chance of getting a goodun. I'll keep my eyes peeled on Piston Heads and the for sale forum on here.

I've been doing a bit of reading and see that you can use Vagcom on these cars which is handy as I've used it on my MK3 Golf. It was cheaper to buy a cable and run it myself than take it to the stealers for a diagnostic on their machine, they quoted £95 to check why the ABS light was on. Do these cars use an OBDII port (think that's what it's called)? Would running a diagnostic on any potential car I was looking at be helpful? Anyway, it's great to find these niche communities with people who are supremely helpful, thanks for your advice everyone.

[EDIT]

I almost forgot, does anyone know of a decent specialist in the Bucks/Herts area? There's no way on earth I'd take this car to a stealership, I learnt my lesson by taking my golf to a stealer(just the once tho).

[bobbler]

I personally wouldnt worry about the "alarming" problem of turbos going. I don't think its an issue at all really.
You need to remember this is an internet forum, people do not come on to post and say "Hey guess what, my car just ran fine this morning. Nothing went wrong at all" so problems ALWAYS seem disproportionate to the amount of posts about how they are running fine.
You get wind of a possible issue, then go searching for it, you are going to find just that problem.
All cars can have problems with various expensive bits, BMW have VANOS control unit failure which can be similarly expensive but we still hear of German reliability and build quality being great.
As has been said IF it goes wrong, its an expensive job, probably about 50% of the total you will buy an S4 for.
Would it stop me buying one? Not on your frigging nelly would it and once you have driven one, you will be of the same mind I am sure.

At the moment, I am of the mind if the turbos do ever go, I get a damn fine excuse to get an upgrade at the same time

[MarkB]

I'd like to point out that K04's can fail just like K03's. They just don't seem to do it as regularly

[maximus4]

A good place to take your S4 is MRC in Banbury. Top guys and they know their Audi's.

[dazzer]

I don't think the K03 failure is something to get worked up about. As long as you keep on top of boost leaks, and more importantly upgrade the weak points then you should be fine. Treat them kindly and they will repay you spades.

If you don't want more power/torque above standard then there is no need IMHO to worry about upgrading to K04s, unless in the rare instance your K03 turbo fairy does pay a visit, then you have the option to consider opening the wallet a little wider.

[ajsl]

Hey guess what, my car just ran fine this morning. Nothing went wrong at all.

Regarding the turbos, they go when they go. No one really can tell when that will be. Sure remapping, not following warm up/cool down routines, oil, boost leaks, dead MAF etc will all accelerate that process but at the end of the day it could happen anytime regardless.

The B5 S4 (IMHO) is an amazing car, subtle looks, great performance, excellent tuning potential, and cheap to buy (these days).

Buying a 6-7 (assuming you get a face lift model) year old twin turbo charged "premium" brand (arguable I know!) sports saloon is not something you do on cost/benefit risk calculations alone. You have to want to own the car - often irrationally! .

My S4 is my "daily driver", the fact that the turbos will go doesn't alter my daily enjoyment of the car. If I wanted predicable mundane motoring I'd have bought a Civic/Corolla. The S4 is never dull, it's a rare journey that doesn't have me appreciating the heady blend of compromises that a B5 S4 is.

One thing, I wouldn't necessarily look for a full dealer service history, a service history with a specialist is worth more in my mind. My experience of Audi dealers in relation to the S4 has been poor (others have had different experiences though!).

[confusionhunter]

BTW... if your handy with spanners you can do it your self at the fraction of the cost...... quite a few of us on here have taken the engine out ourselves (including myself).....

[wombar]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I know the S4 isn't a car you should buy if you're worrying about how much a tank of petrol costs etc, I'm just trying to get a feel for the car in general.

Having read a lot of the posts yesterday, it scared me reading about spending £4k to have the turbos replaced etc(think these were K04s or something). I'm not going to do any mods to an S4 (presuming I get one) but will of course have it health checked etc and then get it maintained at a specialist. I wouldn't ever touch a main dealer with a barge pole personally after my one and only trip for a service to the VW dealer near me.

Should I be unlucky and the turbos do blow, how much am I looking at to get them replaced with standard K03s (I presume thats the name for the standard turbos)? I'm not afraid to get my hands dirty (have replaced ABS sensors on my Golf etc), but I don't have a garage at the moment so I don't think DIY is an option for me.

Does anyone know of a specialist in the Bucks/Herts/West London area (Uxbridge/High Wycombe/Watford would be great). MRC is going to be a 120 mile round trip for me, that's fine for a one off, but not a trip I want to do every time I need something doing to the car.