£33K Mclaren F1?

[StuH]

Practical, cool or weird?

If there was a low volume car for sale for about £33K with a 3 person Malaren F1 style layout would you think it was practical, cool or just weird?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... f%26sa%3DG


I have completed some the initial design work on a 330bhp 850kg RWD mid- engined sports coupe that produces very significant down force. A predicted top speed of 150-155mph 0-100 time of 8 seconds with an average MPG of about 28. Dimensions and refinement wise think Lotus Europa S rather than Caterham R400

The upside of this 3 seat layout is the great weight/stiffness ratio, the centralisation of mass. Crucialy the layout allows for a very unusual dedication of space at both ends of the vehicle for aerodynamic purposes.

There are two main down sides to my design. As with the Mclaren F1, entry to the drivers seat is compromised by high longitudinal internal sills. It will be about as tricky for the driver as getting seated as in an Elise with the roof on. Passenger access is no issue though. Secondly how would your passengers feel about riding so that here head was 20 inches behind and about 25inches to the side of the drivers head. I know that most petrol heads and children (2 similar creatures) wouldn’t care but my other half is not keen on travelling in a position where in here own words “you’d stick some subservient little girls”

If I ever get the confidence to quite my job and move this project on I would be looking to produce only 12 vehicles in the first year so this car doesn’t have to be everything to all men but if you think the three seat thing is just too weird let me know! I would be very interested to hear your opinions?

Are there sports car buyers out there who’s partners wouldn’t insist on a car she could ride along side you in?

Would you buy it?

Would car loving parents with one child sacrifice airbags for the adrenaline hit ! (I'm ashamed to say i would)

Would your TVR, Noble, Exige owning friends buy it?

[Nige_RS4]

Do you have any drawings / sketches? Is it a track-focused car i.e. R&D expenditure on spring/damper rates? When I read the title, I was already thinking Maclaren F1 performance, but it seems a tad limp, my diesel skoda isn't far off 8 secs to 60!

[StuH]

Road car, that fun on trackdays (the design would never race as it breaks several cometion car rules)

Don't know if you miss-read the 100 bit but anyway you are right 8 seconds to a 100 is 1.5 seconds solwer then the late and great F1. The intended gearbox is tourque limited to 300 ft lbs so any performace increase would come from lower weight more exatic materials that would rocket the cost. I'm happy with the perfornce per £ assepect of the design. Suspension geometry and how to calculate spring rates is not as hard as you'd think , you'd probably enjoy " Competition Car Suspension: Design, Construction, Tuning by Allan Staniforth" fantastice resource. Dampers are a bit harder but rolebars is where i'm coming unstuck, The area that will consume most money is turning the aero ideas into reality. At the present in only have 2 plans, I either need some serious dirt on sa professor at my local university (they have a wind tunnle) or i'll have to do do some very laborious testing with load gauges.

Anyway Nigel, 3 seats GAY or WHAAYYYYY?

[Nige_RS4]

Don't know if you miss-read the 100 bit but anyway you are right 8 seconds to a 100 is 1.5 seconds solwer then the late and great F1.

Ooops, slight difference between 0-60 & 0-100!!! What engine would you propose?

3 seats are no good for me - I need 5, but I like the thought of a central drivers seat - also solves your LHD / RHD export problem!

[jeffw]

Interesting idea but the three seat idea is always a little weird in the flesh....the Matra Bagheera had this in the design phase but it was dropped prior to production. 0-100 in 8 secs and 155MPH sounds good although I would expect slightly more top end out of 330 BHP.

[harperboy]

Sounds awesom to me, could see it as a good weekend car for those who have the money to permit, not exactly F1 money. 3 seats is cool also.

[dummi]

your local university is a good bet, cos ours if something is going to be mass produced and you use them for a design they get more grant , i'm sure yours has a similar subsidy to those in brum

[StuH]

know the 150mph top speed is about 15mph down on what you would achieve with a low drag road car like the slippery Porsche 911 (year 2000) which actually generates nearly 300kg's of lift at that speed. An LMP class Lemans cars manage to generate 1200-1800Kg of downforce at 150MPH. My daily drive will do over 160mph but I would swap the top end in a spit second for enough downforce top generate G forces of say 1.4G on winding B roads and 1.7G on sweeping A roads. There is some interesting stuff on http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html


The engine that I have based the chassis on is a Subaru EJ25 turbo, I know that 4 cylinders isn’t the best for £33k but in its defense they do sound good and it’s the only engine that will fit, meet emissions rules and not blow the budget.

The high downforce predictions are largely down to the underbody design that feeds a high proportion of the load directly into the suspension uprights (illegal for competition car). This will enable the spatial relationship between the under-tray and the road surface to be closely controlled and more importantly for a road car this will allow the suspension to remain relatively comfortable as the aerodynamic loads are not being fed through the chassis. Something that remains to be seen is whether my underbody setup can avoid shaking itself to pieces and instantaneously loosing down force, the reason devices of it’s type were banned from racing.

I have been struggling to work a lot of the details out in solid works but I think doing it for real might be more motivating and hence quicker. So the next step is to get the belt manufacturer to confirm that my driveline proposal is fundemtally sound, (I intend to use a particular industrial belt). I then need to buy a test engine, gearbox, a number of aluminum honeycomb panels, a lot of tubing and all other components of significant size/weight so I can start on a mock up. That should allow me enough info to estimate fairly accurately the centers of gravity and masses which in turn will enable me to finalise the inboard suspension mounts and roll centers.

I hope to have it finished before summer 2027