slagging of new S4 in this weeks Autocar test

[Gareth]

Nige

I thought the whole point of this thread was to compare the S4 and M3 but your poll has introduced the RS4... [img]images/graemlins/062802beat_prv.gif[/img]

Kinda defeats the point IMO [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[DuncS3]

Nige S4 cant speak for us all

I would love a M3 as my next car and I agree the poll should be M3 vs S4 as the RS4 is a one off special

Anyhow I voted M3 [img]images/graemlins/flamethrower.gif[/img]

Dunc [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

[Gareth]

Nige S4 cant speak for us all

I would love a M3 as my next car and I agree the poll should be M3 vs S4 as the RS4 is a one off special

Anyhow I voted M3 [img]images/graemlins/flamethrower.gif[/img]

Dunc [img]images/graemlins/s3addict.gif[/img]

Thanks Dunc [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[JohnW]

Interesting discussion this.
What would I spend 40k on ?

Well I voted for the RS4, as that is what I have just brought having been in exactly this buying dilema.

If it was just between the S4 and the M3, I'd go for the S4.
My reasons are purely personal, but I would buy an Avant for slightly more practicality.
I'm concerned about the M3 engine situation, and one of my friends who has one does not like the drive-by-wire throttle. Although I haven't driven an M3 I trust his judgement. You have to respect someone who gives you honest feedback (warts and all) about their pride and joy.

I also think that with the S4 being the new kid on the block, it will benefit from slightly higher desirability (and so better residuals) for the next year or two.

Now if you were to throw the net a little wider on what you were to spend 40k on, then I'd buy a Porsche 993 C2S or C4S [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

All IMO of course.

Cheers,
John.

[JohnH]

Not sure I see the logic of having an M3 v S4 thread and then have a vote between M3 v RS4 [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I have owned an E46 M3 and RS4 and even though I have to admit I loved the M3 it does not compare to the practicality, performance and exclusivity of my RS4 although admitedly the RS4 is slightly modded!! I would however chose the M3 over the new S4 purely for its driveability and looks which on the S4 are so understated as to be hardly noticeable from the standard A4. The only real issue I have with the M3 is the number of them about.

[Nige_RS4]

Not sure I see the logic of having an M3 v S4 thread and then have a vote between M3 v RS

I agree, and I couldn't find a way of keeping the history and starting a new thread on the RS4 board - the point is that if you had £40k burning a hole in your pocket, you are more likely to compare the M3 to the RS4 than the S4. It has been said before, Audi are not competing with the M3 with the S4 in terms of out and out performance (the TV/media comparisions don't help here). They are just offering a more flexible package for similar money. [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

[Dippy]

I need to keep out of this thread as I'm certainly not in the least interested in the M3, not even a test drive. However I do need to answer Gareth:

1. You say that the S4 is not an M3 competitor. I find that hard to believe and I'm sure that Audi would also disagree. Ok it's a 4 door saloon v 2 door coupe but the accomodation is not too different and they are aimed at the same buyer.

We have different opinions here. I would say that in terms of market placement there is a HUGE difference between a 4 door saloon and a 2 door coupe, so I say they are NOT for the same buyer. We can agree to disagree of course.

2. You said that BMW do not produce a performance saloon/estate- Esate granted, but what about the M5 saloon?

Yes true - I forgot that. Then again I probably only do mean estate as although I prefer the look of saloons, I prefer the practicality of estates.

3. When the S4 cab comes out it seems pretty obvious to me that these two will compete with each other in the marketplace. Can't think why you wouldn't think that, to be honest..

Well I said that they would compete, but that there still may be subtleties between the markets. IMO the M3 has an image which really sets it apart from the other convertibles in the range. All the M3s I have seen (including convertibles) have been driven by men, so I guess that some women are turned off by the image? Whereas I'm guessing that like the 4/5-door S4, the S4 cab will not look much different to the other cabs and will not have a 'masculine image' like the M3.

Anyway, it's a minor point and I probably shouldn't have bothered making it.

[kante3]

I had to throw my hat into the ring! [img]images/graemlins/bigwave.gif[/img]

I have ALWAYS hankered after an M3 - to me it has one major thing that the Audi doesn't have and that presence - it really does look the biz whereas the Audi is IMHO too understated for it own good.

At the time when I changed my car the M3 had just been released and so there was no real way I could get one without either an unacceptably long wait or a price premium - so I bought an RS4 instead.

I too have never driven an M3, although my previous car, a 328 coupe, was superb in all respects including getting the family in for a tour round Europe (ok it was a little cramped).

Come next year when the RS is due for replacement I'm not sure what I'll do:

1. Follow my heart and buy an M3.....but its not available as an avant.
2. Follow my head and buy an S4.....but will I be happy that nobody notices.
3. Follow my wallet and buy an BMW D10 Alpina.....but will it be quick enough.
4. Completely re-think my car strategy and buy a 911 (plus a A4 Tdi Avant for the missus!).
5. Wait and see what the new M5 is like.

[Gareth]

Ah come on, you know want to have a go in the M3...give your friendly local BMW dealer a call and he'll oblige you [img]images/graemlins/080402call_prv.gif[/img]

[img]images/graemlins/jesterlol.gif[/img]



[quote]I need to keep out of this thread as I'm certainly not in the least interested in the M3, not even a test drive. However I do need to answer Gareth:

[JohnH]

gareth, not sure that 'friendly' and 'BMW dealer' should be used in the same sentence [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img]

[Gareth]

Mmm fair point John... [img]images/graemlins/clap.gif[/img]

[ianw]

Dunno if I am missing the point somehow or am just unique, but in my view even though the M3 and S4 are in a similar price range they cannot simply be compared because the s4 is four wheel drive - and to be honest to me that is like air conditioning now I have experienced it I wouldn't buy a car without it, even if I was still living in the UK

[kante3]

You may be interested to know that my local BMW dealer here in Germany is called Alexander Wanka.......... [img]images/graemlins/jump.gif[/img]

I sh1t you not!

[Dippy]

If it were easy to get an M3 test drive then yes I would want one just to see what it is like (although I have test driven a 330Ci so apart from engine & running gear I already know what it's like, particularly the crap gearbox and strangely-place pedals).

However as has been pointed out, I have to go through a BMW dealer in order to get the test drive, and to be honest I really can't put up with talking to arrogant smug salespeople at the moment.

It was bad enough getting my S4 test drives a few years back, and that was before telling them that I was going to import one!

[Gareth]

I reckon you're just avoiding a drive in the M3 in case you like it and can't face admitting it! [img]images/graemlins/033102bigblink_1_prv.gif[/img] Anyway let's just agree to disagee and call it quits [img]images/graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

Not all BMW dealers are smug gits, some are ok even.. [img]images/graemlins/3flypigs.gif[/img]