RS246 Driver Development Program - Exclusive Day
Do us a favour Paz and post the link (or is it tucked away on the 6 pages of this thread!)BTW I've updated the forum gallery . . .
https://www.speedcams.co.uk
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
It was wet/damp for most of the day, so tyre wear was minimal (in my case) and we were being encouraged to be smooth.How would you all gauge wear and tear on the car n' tyres compared to typical open track day?
https://www.speedcams.co.uk
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
Gallery's here Nige
http://www.rs246.com/modules.php?op=mod ... &cat=18761
http://www.rs246.com/modules.php?op=mod ... &cat=18761
Fine until you spin off the skid pan, at 40mph sideways onto the HIGH grip surfice, ouch!!!Nexus27 wrote:How would you all gauge wear and tear on the car n' tyres compared to typical open track day?
I think there were some brake problems though, over to you Graham!
Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
I went with probably less than 1000 miles on other wise new Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres. Both front and back passenger side tyres have got chamfered edges to the tread but no real wear in terms of depth.
Coming off the skid pan anything other than in any thing other than a dead straight line is not recommended but you'll only do it a few times while you master it.
Brakes....hmmm.... well ~10 laps braking from any from just shy of 120mph down to slow at full braking force wasn't recommended I guess....even with my 993tt brakes up front I boiled my fluid and had a pedal on the floor moment....in hindsight taking it a bit easier, taking some cool down breaks and being more aware of early signs could have prevented this. Likewise while my plan to have my brake pads replaced today worked out ok, having new pads before the day would have also helped reduce overheating.
I have now had Castrol SRF fluid introduced to me!
I was happy to have my pride and joy road car there for the day.
I didn't produce any smoke anyway, over to you Nige........
Coming off the skid pan anything other than in any thing other than a dead straight line is not recommended but you'll only do it a few times while you master it.
Brakes....hmmm.... well ~10 laps braking from any from just shy of 120mph down to slow at full braking force wasn't recommended I guess....even with my 993tt brakes up front I boiled my fluid and had a pedal on the floor moment....in hindsight taking it a bit easier, taking some cool down breaks and being more aware of early signs could have prevented this. Likewise while my plan to have my brake pads replaced today worked out ok, having new pads before the day would have also helped reduce overheating.
I have now had Castrol SRF fluid introduced to me!
I was happy to have my pride and joy road car there for the day.
I didn't produce any smoke anyway, over to you Nige........
Present: 2010 Ice silver B8 S4 s-tronic saloon (standard)
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
I'm really glad I went. For a variety of reasons, I wouldn't be attracted to a pure track day but I'm keen to get new driving skills and that's what this day offers. I learnt a lot as a complete beginner and it seemed to me that others with greater track experience also got something out of it.
The format of the day is as DavidT described in the opening post of this thread. It's an instruction day, not an all out performance/ragged edge day. The emphasis is on getting it right on the basis that once you've done that, speed will come, if that's what you want. That's not to say that you spend the day pootling about - far from it and there are a couple of stretches on the main course where high speed is possible and encouraged.
The main track comprises a couple of fast sections with complex technical sections (well I thought they were!) at each end of the circuit. After heavy rain over lunch, one complex acquired a deep water splash just as you were turning in at the end of a fast section - 4WD saved the day until the puddle had been splashed dry!
The adverse handling course is short and very twisty with some adverse cambers and lumpy bits where you would prefer flat - 2nd gear with a couple of bursts of 3rd if you drive it like me. I found it hard to get right, and in fact didn't, not for a whole lap anyway. Best sit this one out when your tuition partner is having a go because the passenger gets thrown about pretty brutally once the red mist descends on the driver.
But the big hoot of the day is the straight skid pan. Once you get the hang of it, you (even I) can get the car zigzagging very sideways for about 100 metres, at about 15mph (faster in some cases, but they rarely lasted for the full distance) - see GrahamS4's photo above of Varsity enjoying himself. There's also a circular skid pan but our 4WD made it almost impossible to pirouette with the intended elegance - 180s were more the order of the day.
I agree with Varsity above about value for money - it was not a cheap day but I felt we got excellent value. Two of you share an instructor all day and that adds up to a lot of tuition time. Even when you're not driving, you're in the other person's car and still learning, so long as you can wedge yourself into the seat, of course.
My standard brakes lasted a couple of laps of the main circuit before fade set in but nothing as serious as Graham's problem. Even brake fade was not a particular concern (so long as you allow for it in braking distances) because the emphasis is on smoothness and accuracy through the corners rather than ultimate speed and aggression approaching them. I didn't notice fade on the adverse handling course, no doubt because the speeds are quite low.
Wear and tear on the car seems slight. I expect the tyres wore more rapidly at times during the day than they normally would but I can't see any difference, the brakes have recovered and fuel economy was dreadful - my single use of 6th to moderate the day's carbon footprint brought forth guffaws all round so I didn't do that again.
One of my objectives for the day was to find out in safe conditions where some of the car's outer limits might be and what it does when it gets there - big tick in that box. I was greatly reassured to find that on normal surfaces the car handles way beyond what you would sensibly do on the public road and the skid pan showed that you (even I) can recover from a high angle slide.
A tiring day because you're concentrating on what you're doing and what's being said to you, and you can't help being a bit pumped up, which at my age is a bit of a novelty and all the more welcome for that!
And, of course, we had the added element of it being a forum day out and it was good to meet some more members and not get sideways looks when duff MAFs and VAGcom blocks came up in conversation.
A great day out and many thanks to those who organised it.
ps Once I work out how to use emoticons, I'll use them!
The format of the day is as DavidT described in the opening post of this thread. It's an instruction day, not an all out performance/ragged edge day. The emphasis is on getting it right on the basis that once you've done that, speed will come, if that's what you want. That's not to say that you spend the day pootling about - far from it and there are a couple of stretches on the main course where high speed is possible and encouraged.
The main track comprises a couple of fast sections with complex technical sections (well I thought they were!) at each end of the circuit. After heavy rain over lunch, one complex acquired a deep water splash just as you were turning in at the end of a fast section - 4WD saved the day until the puddle had been splashed dry!
The adverse handling course is short and very twisty with some adverse cambers and lumpy bits where you would prefer flat - 2nd gear with a couple of bursts of 3rd if you drive it like me. I found it hard to get right, and in fact didn't, not for a whole lap anyway. Best sit this one out when your tuition partner is having a go because the passenger gets thrown about pretty brutally once the red mist descends on the driver.
But the big hoot of the day is the straight skid pan. Once you get the hang of it, you (even I) can get the car zigzagging very sideways for about 100 metres, at about 15mph (faster in some cases, but they rarely lasted for the full distance) - see GrahamS4's photo above of Varsity enjoying himself. There's also a circular skid pan but our 4WD made it almost impossible to pirouette with the intended elegance - 180s were more the order of the day.
I agree with Varsity above about value for money - it was not a cheap day but I felt we got excellent value. Two of you share an instructor all day and that adds up to a lot of tuition time. Even when you're not driving, you're in the other person's car and still learning, so long as you can wedge yourself into the seat, of course.
My standard brakes lasted a couple of laps of the main circuit before fade set in but nothing as serious as Graham's problem. Even brake fade was not a particular concern (so long as you allow for it in braking distances) because the emphasis is on smoothness and accuracy through the corners rather than ultimate speed and aggression approaching them. I didn't notice fade on the adverse handling course, no doubt because the speeds are quite low.
Wear and tear on the car seems slight. I expect the tyres wore more rapidly at times during the day than they normally would but I can't see any difference, the brakes have recovered and fuel economy was dreadful - my single use of 6th to moderate the day's carbon footprint brought forth guffaws all round so I didn't do that again.
One of my objectives for the day was to find out in safe conditions where some of the car's outer limits might be and what it does when it gets there - big tick in that box. I was greatly reassured to find that on normal surfaces the car handles way beyond what you would sensibly do on the public road and the skid pan showed that you (even I) can recover from a high angle slide.
A tiring day because you're concentrating on what you're doing and what's being said to you, and you can't help being a bit pumped up, which at my age is a bit of a novelty and all the more welcome for that!
And, of course, we had the added element of it being a forum day out and it was good to meet some more members and not get sideways looks when duff MAFs and VAGcom blocks came up in conversation.
A great day out and many thanks to those who organised it.
ps Once I work out how to use emoticons, I'll use them!
Silver S4 Avant July 99 "semi" facelift, stock except for MRC custom remap, 710Ns, diy short shift, after run mod, retro fit cruise control, DTS, H+R arbs, n249 delete and F hose delete. Oh dear, this is getting addictive!
Yes it says a lot. Shames me into not writing much! Just about recovered from being exhausted now....VARSITY wrote:Superb write up.
I'll add a note of what I thought of the shorter "adverse handling track". It was commented by others prior to our trip that this was not a good part of the day especially for those in a larger car. Having been, here is my view from the S4.
It was the first session of the day for me and for some reason I'm glad it was. Not easy by any means, but it was a nice intro to the day.
We are talking about an area with a lot of twisty bends as daybar says, undulating in places to unsettle the car. A straight were I was hitting 5-6K rpm in 4th gear, a couple of long progressive 3rd gear bends and some 2nd gear twisties and a hairpin.
It taught control, smoothness, thinking ahead, line, braking point all in a very concise way, physically in terms of environment and mentally in terms of learning curve. No sitting on a long straight waiting for the next bend and compared to a normal track a little less speed (although with the area being so tight it doesn't feel like it keeping your senses on the edge).
Personally I thought it the perfect intro to the day and very useful. If nothing else this is B road driving and we all do that whether an S4 or an RS6 Avant. So an RS6 Avant may not shine around the tight course, but does mean you still don't want to know how to handle the car and how the car handles in these conditions? If it's an area the car has a weakness it's an area I would want to explore in an environment like this!
This was just one third of the morning anyway and the freedom to do pretty much which element we wished in the afternoon, still under constant tuition was a great layout to the day.
I actually enjoyed all three elements and would not want to have skipped any for the first session.
Present: 2010 Ice silver B8 S4 s-tronic saloon (standard)
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
Past: 1998 Agate grey B5 S4 saloon (MRC tuned)
Hers: 2011 Volcano red 8P A3 Sportback 2.0 TDI 170 sport quattro
Sorry if its obvious and its just me but I cant see the link to the video??
Present:...
Lotus Evora GT410 Sport, Caterham 420R, CCM Spitfire, VW T2 Bay Window 1976
Past:
DB11 AMR, 992, 991.2, Yamaha MT01, 640d Gran Coupe, 635d Coupe, RS6 C5, Audi TT 225 Coupe, Astra with wind up windows, Citroen ZX, Rover 213, yes behold, a Rover 213... Renault 5
Lotus Evora GT410 Sport, Caterham 420R, CCM Spitfire, VW T2 Bay Window 1976
Past:
DB11 AMR, 992, 991.2, Yamaha MT01, 640d Gran Coupe, 635d Coupe, RS6 C5, Audi TT 225 Coupe, Astra with wind up windows, Citroen ZX, Rover 213, yes behold, a Rover 213... Renault 5
Ha, Ha! Yes, my pads started smoking after about 10 laps of the high speed course in the morning session, but they never showed any sign of fade all day and a cooling down lap was the order of the day after that!I didn't produce any smoke anyway, over to you Nige........
https://www.speedcams.co.uk
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
Yes, I have been using SRF for a few years now - ever since my fluid boiled at Castle Combe a few years back.Out of interest Nige, you recommended the SRF fluid to me, is that what you use in your car or is it just something you heard of?
IMHO there is no point on skimping on the fluid if you've spent £££'s on an upgraded braking system.
https://www.speedcams.co.uk
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
B5 2.7t S4 - gone
B5 2.7t RS4 - gone
Ed 30 Golf DSG - gone
A5 3.0tdi - gone within 12 months!
S3 2.0 tfsi - 6+ years, but now sold
2018 Golf R 7.5
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