Just noticed the thread, sorry for being slow, but here is my story.
At first, when I got the Movit 6+370 mm discs I had no problem with them. It did take really long to run them in, but the first set of discs went OK. Amazing on track, no cracking, except the normal, non-critical hairline crack around the holes. Some vibration was evident at the beginning, but bedding in did remove that eventually. The first discs did take really long to bed in, probable due to the big pads. I then did wear one disc on the inside strangely, there was a real groove around the disc, probably a stone or something ruined the disc.
I then got new discs. The delivery took some time, so track day loomed near. Alas, I tracked these quite soon, and despite having run them in, there were some cracks starting from the inner edge of the disc.
I then added Phaeton cooling ducts, and got new discs free of charge from Movit, with instructions for running in. Again I did the minimum run-in due to delivery time and track day looming, proper bedding procedures, coolingm and went to track. Did very proper cooling afterwards, 2 laps without touching the brakes, then moving the car every 30 seconds after coming to pits to avoid hot-spotting the discs behind caliper. Again a crack developed on the inner edge of the disc. I reported these to Movit. I also talket to flashieg at this stage.
Movit looked at the issue, and promised a new design of the discs. Last week I got results of their testing. They were able to re-produce my cracking using a very aggressive testing method for un-run in discs. The cracking happened in the beginning, and is probably due to too little run-in, as well as the design and application. Our cars are hard on brakes, fast, low, IC's pushing hot air with little brake cooling. When the test continued, the initial crack on the inner edge of the disc did not grow, so it is not dangerous. Some small hairline cracks developed around the holes, as usual.
In the same test the new disc did not crack at all. The test usually cracks all major manufacturers discs quite badly, without naming any brands.
Movit have promised to be delivering me a set in April. I'm happy to have solved the issue with Movit with some patience.
Movit have been very co-operative in my case, and despite suspected misuse, they have fullfilled warranty issues, and modified their design. I still rate them the best brake supplier, as well as proper petrol heads.
Hope you get proper stopping power, I know I will.
Movit discs on RS4 (problems) solved by AP Racing. Discuss
Well I have been the perfect gentleman with movit.
The promised a solution last April to me, unfortunately the previous April the same promise was made to both myself and Dave P.
I have never fallen out with them but many rs6 owners have similar experience. I'm glad movit suggest they have solved this but I have given up waiting as my car has had to cone off the road my movit discs were so bad, 4 sets. Lets see how you fair. If you need the AP solution its here.
36mm big and strong.
Still waiting for my road worthy discs, When will they arrive !!!
Some how I will be very surprised If they ever do.
Unless I go back and write another 10 mails , well I got AP ti help.
Hope you are sorted now, please let me know after 2-3 full on track days.
Mine are 100% proven now.
G
Sorry if I sound short, no annoyance intended, best regards.
Hope to hear if movit have solved this by June / July 2007 then!!
The promised a solution last April to me, unfortunately the previous April the same promise was made to both myself and Dave P.
I have never fallen out with them but many rs6 owners have similar experience. I'm glad movit suggest they have solved this but I have given up waiting as my car has had to cone off the road my movit discs were so bad, 4 sets. Lets see how you fair. If you need the AP solution its here.
36mm big and strong.
Still waiting for my road worthy discs, When will they arrive !!!
Some how I will be very surprised If they ever do.
Unless I go back and write another 10 mails , well I got AP ti help.
Hope you are sorted now, please let me know after 2-3 full on track days.
Mine are 100% proven now.
G
Sorry if I sound short, no annoyance intended, best regards.
Hope to hear if movit have solved this by June / July 2007 then!!
Wow...don't really come on the site much anymore, but interesting thread....
I think it's only fair for you to share the information about the state of the AP 'strap' drive discs after our last visit to Spa/Ring Gordon ? At that stage they certainly didn't look like the 'solution' to any problem!!
They may have cleared up since, but lets be honest - they were in a right mess and vibrating like a bastard after that !!
I think it's only fair that if you're telling people that this is the solution to all the problems, they know the full information...post a picture of them and let people see what they were like.
Facts is, the RS4 is a damn heavy, powerfull car that takes a hell of a lot of stopping!
As a comparison, my CSL has 355mm non-floating AP setup and has lasted a load of trackdays and has never given any problems...some cars just aren't designed to be put through the trackday abuse - when I realised that was when I decided to sell the RS4.
I think it's only fair for you to share the information about the state of the AP 'strap' drive discs after our last visit to Spa/Ring Gordon ? At that stage they certainly didn't look like the 'solution' to any problem!!
They may have cleared up since, but lets be honest - they were in a right mess and vibrating like a bastard after that !!
I think it's only fair that if you're telling people that this is the solution to all the problems, they know the full information...post a picture of them and let people see what they were like.
Facts is, the RS4 is a damn heavy, powerfull car that takes a hell of a lot of stopping!
As a comparison, my CSL has 355mm non-floating AP setup and has lasted a load of trackdays and has never given any problems...some cars just aren't designed to be put through the trackday abuse - when I realised that was when I decided to sell the RS4.
DaveP...
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Well Dave,
I have never nor would I ever deceive anyone.
I am extremely frustrated by such innuendo that the solution I have worked so hard to achieve is
- So easy for others to criticise and dismantle now that they are no longer neck deep in their own <beep> having bought other solutions or got rid of their cars.
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... 952043ad83
It was you on the other post that brought this disc Pad deposit/ vibration issue up after I discussed my Pad and disk issues at Spa.
Have you lost your memory or your mind!!!???
No 1.
I think there is an apology in order suggesting I would not or have not discussed the pad deposits from my first testing and my findings and issues.
No 2
I would also like to mention that I did two further track days since spa and my braking and pad combination was far better and absolutely no deposits were left on the disc so they were perfect. Both your self and Gavin assured me my issue at Spa were pad deposits and you were absolutely right. So I would suggest to any one with distorted brake feel to please not knock the product for an ability to get deposit. I know you have had deposit issues and criticize others for knocking discs when it’s not the discs fault! I totally acknowledge my discs looked apaulling but I took them to an extreme in temps, most certainly as a result of overly excessive braking on spa too early not bedding in my pads properly and leaving esp on. Guess what? The discs are still perfect now after a pad change, which cleaned off the deposits and smoothed the disc face and on my subsequent track day they are the business.
No3
The biggest of them all....Dave P. ...I quote
"Trust me Gordon The Movit stuff is the best I’ve done my research, No the AP stuff is good but not as good....
OK Dave I usually need to see the evidence but Ill trust you on this one Dave"
No offence Dave but you did ask!
Seriously though.
Think back, try and remember... come on.
How pissed off were you when we left Germany with the brakes,
Second set cracked up so bad and going to the ring, I cancelled cause mine had snapped and went with you instead. You were so pissed you wanted to go down to movit there and then.
Third set, half day at croft in the rain, snap. Track day over...
Dave that is what these 6 pages are about, a solution...
My discs haven't snapped they don't wobble no matter what.
Yes these are brake discs
Yes my car is 2 tones
Yes you are lucky you have a csl
But many people here have spent 6k on movit and the front discs SUCK
Yes the six pot is better at stopping 2 tones
Yes the solid discs from AP are way stronger the drilled brembos designed to stop a Porsche with the engine over the back wheels and as a road car.
Yes AP solved my problem.
Forgive the spelling and grammar sick of this <beep> thread my self.
Wish I never bothered.
EXCEPT for the people I am helping
I am glad all these with Movits here in the UK have asked for me to get them ordered subject to price.
Further point,
In the wet, I love track days; in the dry many track-focused cars are considerably more capable into the corners,
On the autobahn these lighter cars aren't so quick or capable.
As my car is heavy I have to take care of the best breaks, this is a draw back, but I can carry a set of sticky tyres in the boot.
So these cars a better at many things and not so good at others.
Come On guys, there is no need to get rid of the cars for this reason or abstain from track. You just need to drive with the knowledge, that rs4's b5's to be more specific are faster than csls in the real world.
Now I'm running for cover.........But I haven’t said much wrong...
So what do you think then?
G
I have never nor would I ever deceive anyone.
I am extremely frustrated by such innuendo that the solution I have worked so hard to achieve is
- So easy for others to criticise and dismantle now that they are no longer neck deep in their own <beep> having bought other solutions or got rid of their cars.
http://www.rs246.com/index.php?name=PNp ... 952043ad83
It was you on the other post that brought this disc Pad deposit/ vibration issue up after I discussed my Pad and disk issues at Spa.
Have you lost your memory or your mind!!!???
No 1.
I think there is an apology in order suggesting I would not or have not discussed the pad deposits from my first testing and my findings and issues.
No 2
I would also like to mention that I did two further track days since spa and my braking and pad combination was far better and absolutely no deposits were left on the disc so they were perfect. Both your self and Gavin assured me my issue at Spa were pad deposits and you were absolutely right. So I would suggest to any one with distorted brake feel to please not knock the product for an ability to get deposit. I know you have had deposit issues and criticize others for knocking discs when it’s not the discs fault! I totally acknowledge my discs looked apaulling but I took them to an extreme in temps, most certainly as a result of overly excessive braking on spa too early not bedding in my pads properly and leaving esp on. Guess what? The discs are still perfect now after a pad change, which cleaned off the deposits and smoothed the disc face and on my subsequent track day they are the business.
No3
The biggest of them all....Dave P. ...I quote
"Trust me Gordon The Movit stuff is the best I’ve done my research, No the AP stuff is good but not as good....
OK Dave I usually need to see the evidence but Ill trust you on this one Dave"
No offence Dave but you did ask!
Seriously though.
Think back, try and remember... come on.
How pissed off were you when we left Germany with the brakes,
Second set cracked up so bad and going to the ring, I cancelled cause mine had snapped and went with you instead. You were so pissed you wanted to go down to movit there and then.
Third set, half day at croft in the rain, snap. Track day over...
Dave that is what these 6 pages are about, a solution...
My discs haven't snapped they don't wobble no matter what.
Yes these are brake discs
Yes my car is 2 tones
Yes you are lucky you have a csl
But many people here have spent 6k on movit and the front discs SUCK
Yes the six pot is better at stopping 2 tones
Yes the solid discs from AP are way stronger the drilled brembos designed to stop a Porsche with the engine over the back wheels and as a road car.
Yes AP solved my problem.
Forgive the spelling and grammar sick of this <beep> thread my self.
Wish I never bothered.
EXCEPT for the people I am helping
I am glad all these with Movits here in the UK have asked for me to get them ordered subject to price.
Further point,
In the wet, I love track days; in the dry many track-focused cars are considerably more capable into the corners,
On the autobahn these lighter cars aren't so quick or capable.
As my car is heavy I have to take care of the best breaks, this is a draw back, but I can carry a set of sticky tyres in the boot.
So these cars a better at many things and not so good at others.
Come On guys, there is no need to get rid of the cars for this reason or abstain from track. You just need to drive with the knowledge, that rs4's b5's to be more specific are faster than csls in the real world.
Now I'm running for cover.........But I haven’t said much wrong...
So what do you think then?
G
Oh superb... 
Firstly, yes I was the one who brought up the state of your discs in that post. I mentioned it here again because people may not have read that post and are simply reading this post thinking that the strap drive AP's are the holy grail of brake solutions on the RS4.
No1 - Therefore, I do not believe an apology is required.
No2 - I certainly did not assure you that the vinyl LP style grooving was the result of pad deposits. I don't think Gavin did either. I did mention that my AP's had pad deposit vibration when I first bed them in, perhaps that's what you are confusing?
Additionally, the track days you have done since Spa have all been wet !! - you are not going to get anywhere near the same temperatures into the discs on wet days ! Do a full dry day on a track which is hard on brakes before you go hailing these discs as the ultimate solution - please - for your sake, not mine.
No3 - Yep, I admit...I did believe they were the 'solution' - which is why I'm trying to help you here - if people buy these discs, and they have problems - you are the one who told them they'd be perfect ! I'm truly sorry you have had all the problems with the Movits.
I do still believe the Movit calipers are the business....Yes, they did have problems with the solid discs that I tried, although I never tried the Movit 'floating' discs as I had sold my car then. Perhaps they still have issues, I don't know.
Sometimes, in the modding world, you have to be the first to try something so that others can benefit from your experience....lots of the original B5 RS4 owners spent small fortunes on modifications - people nowadays are reaping the benefits from these people and probably don't even know it. RS4 owners now know exactly what to do to get the best performance upgrades for their money....and who to spend their money with.
Brakes in particular are always a sore subject with the RS4....simply because they have to cope with so much abuse!
I am not slating the RS4 at all...it's an awesome car, please don't read my post like that. However, the RS4 is not a track car ! People shouldn't expect it to be, or even waste money trying to turn it into one...
Is your car faster than mine ? I honestly don't care. For me it doesn't matter. I changed cars because I wanted to take my driving to a new level. I have had far more enjoyment on track in my CSL than I ever did in the RS4.
Oh, and I can get a set of wheels/tyres in the CSL to take to the track if I need to...
Take care buddy - I'm only trying to help you out here!
Firstly, yes I was the one who brought up the state of your discs in that post. I mentioned it here again because people may not have read that post and are simply reading this post thinking that the strap drive AP's are the holy grail of brake solutions on the RS4.
No1 - Therefore, I do not believe an apology is required.
No2 - I certainly did not assure you that the vinyl LP style grooving was the result of pad deposits. I don't think Gavin did either. I did mention that my AP's had pad deposit vibration when I first bed them in, perhaps that's what you are confusing?
Additionally, the track days you have done since Spa have all been wet !! - you are not going to get anywhere near the same temperatures into the discs on wet days ! Do a full dry day on a track which is hard on brakes before you go hailing these discs as the ultimate solution - please - for your sake, not mine.
No3 - Yep, I admit...I did believe they were the 'solution' - which is why I'm trying to help you here - if people buy these discs, and they have problems - you are the one who told them they'd be perfect ! I'm truly sorry you have had all the problems with the Movits.
I do still believe the Movit calipers are the business....Yes, they did have problems with the solid discs that I tried, although I never tried the Movit 'floating' discs as I had sold my car then. Perhaps they still have issues, I don't know.
Sometimes, in the modding world, you have to be the first to try something so that others can benefit from your experience....lots of the original B5 RS4 owners spent small fortunes on modifications - people nowadays are reaping the benefits from these people and probably don't even know it. RS4 owners now know exactly what to do to get the best performance upgrades for their money....and who to spend their money with.
Brakes in particular are always a sore subject with the RS4....simply because they have to cope with so much abuse!
I am not slating the RS4 at all...it's an awesome car, please don't read my post like that. However, the RS4 is not a track car ! People shouldn't expect it to be, or even waste money trying to turn it into one...
Is your car faster than mine ? I honestly don't care. For me it doesn't matter. I changed cars because I wanted to take my driving to a new level. I have had far more enjoyment on track in my CSL than I ever did in the RS4.
Oh, and I can get a set of wheels/tyres in the CSL to take to the track if I need to...
Take care buddy - I'm only trying to help you out here!
DaveP...
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Hi Dave,
Thanks for you help,
Thanks for reiterating the issues with movit discs.
There are no new movits as of yet!
Its another one of those will get them in April , I believe!
I think from a previous post movit may well just, almost, nearly be admitting there may be an issue in the most exceptional of cases!
I certainly couldn't wait about, So to the best of my knowledge no floating solution.
No solutions at. Except the solid floating solution kiddly designed by ap.
Requested by me as a desperately disappointed Movit customer.
I'm a fussy customer but isn't anyone with brakes that fall off.
Breaks are superb so far and now the discs don't fall apart,
I don't hold you responsible Dave and again thanks for the slightly lopsided balance.
Thanks 4 ur input.
Now back to you.
A real track car has a cage doesn't it? so yours is simply another version of a compromise too. (I do love your car though) useless in the wet (rs4 is the king).
Spare wheels in a csl, surprised they didn't drop through the boot floor.
Loving you work Dave now get back to the 3 series forum and do a bit of drifting...
C u soon bud hope all is going well.
G
Thanks for you help,
Thanks for reiterating the issues with movit discs.
There are no new movits as of yet!
Its another one of those will get them in April , I believe!
I think from a previous post movit may well just, almost, nearly be admitting there may be an issue in the most exceptional of cases!
I certainly couldn't wait about, So to the best of my knowledge no floating solution.
No solutions at. Except the solid floating solution kiddly designed by ap.
Requested by me as a desperately disappointed Movit customer.
I'm a fussy customer but isn't anyone with brakes that fall off.
Breaks are superb so far and now the discs don't fall apart,
I don't hold you responsible Dave and again thanks for the slightly lopsided balance.
Thanks 4 ur input.
Now back to you.
A real track car has a cage doesn't it? so yours is simply another version of a compromise too. (I do love your car though) useless in the wet (rs4 is the king).
Spare wheels in a csl, surprised they didn't drop through the boot floor.
Loving you work Dave now get back to the 3 series forum and do a bit of drifting...
C u soon bud hope all is going well.
G
Are you two going to kiss and make up? 
If we're all honest we all have some issues with our cars. Let's face it - a road car is built on a series of compromises - weight/power/brakes/suspension/tyres/seats/heating & aircon/radio...everything in fact in order to balance cost against low failure rate (for warranty purposes).
There are very few cars out there designed for track use .... all cars can be used on the track but they aren't designed for the track so various components are going to be pushed to the limit and some will fail. As enthusiats we try to reduce this failure rate or improve various qualities on our cars in order to enjoy them more on the track. Some go for huge power upgrades, some for suspension or brakes and some lucky people do teh whole lot. Everybody is different in what they want from their cars for track and road use. My car is my every day ride so any mods have to be made with everyday practicality in mind.
I think the general consensus is that Movit brakes provide phenomenal braking performance but the flip side seems to be quality and longevity. For those reasons I got rid of the Movits on my car and used the RS6+ setup. That was my choice and one that I would recommend to others who have the same demands on their cars as I do.
There is another issue here regarding trackdays - many of us have spent thousands modding our cars (one way or another) in order to improve one or more aspects of our cars...you can have the best setup in the world but if you're a crap driver it isn't going to help you much. Put two similar RS4's out on a track and the chances are one will be driven better and faster - take the same two cars and drivers to a different track and the position may be different. Perhaps we need to spend thousands modding the drivers too?
I'm sure many will be watching this thread and some will look at getting rid of their Movits(some will also keep theirs) - some will consider the AP solution and some may go elsewhere, some may even revert back to the stock setup (btw BakerDCB uses stock brakes on his car and he tracks it quite frequently).
It will be interesting to see how the AP brakes are in say 6 months time after they've had a good "pasting" on several wet and dry trackdays.
That's my 2p. now going to get back to work.
If we're all honest we all have some issues with our cars. Let's face it - a road car is built on a series of compromises - weight/power/brakes/suspension/tyres/seats/heating & aircon/radio...everything in fact in order to balance cost against low failure rate (for warranty purposes).
There are very few cars out there designed for track use .... all cars can be used on the track but they aren't designed for the track so various components are going to be pushed to the limit and some will fail. As enthusiats we try to reduce this failure rate or improve various qualities on our cars in order to enjoy them more on the track. Some go for huge power upgrades, some for suspension or brakes and some lucky people do teh whole lot. Everybody is different in what they want from their cars for track and road use. My car is my every day ride so any mods have to be made with everyday practicality in mind.
I think the general consensus is that Movit brakes provide phenomenal braking performance but the flip side seems to be quality and longevity. For those reasons I got rid of the Movits on my car and used the RS6+ setup. That was my choice and one that I would recommend to others who have the same demands on their cars as I do.
There is another issue here regarding trackdays - many of us have spent thousands modding our cars (one way or another) in order to improve one or more aspects of our cars...you can have the best setup in the world but if you're a crap driver it isn't going to help you much. Put two similar RS4's out on a track and the chances are one will be driven better and faster - take the same two cars and drivers to a different track and the position may be different. Perhaps we need to spend thousands modding the drivers too?
I'm sure many will be watching this thread and some will look at getting rid of their Movits(some will also keep theirs) - some will consider the AP solution and some may go elsewhere, some may even revert back to the stock setup (btw BakerDCB uses stock brakes on his car and he tracks it quite frequently).
It will be interesting to see how the AP brakes are in say 6 months time after they've had a good "pasting" on several wet and dry trackdays.
That's my 2p. now going to get back to work.
RS4 in the only colour to have - Misano Red | MRC Remap | RS6+ brakes | H&R and Custom Performance Parts suspension |
Huge Grin
If you dont "do it now" you never will.
Huge Grin
If you dont "do it now" you never will.Great post derdle....I agree totally.
To make things clear (it's probably not apparent from the posts above) - myself and Gordon are great mates and have shared many a snoring bedroom together on our travels to tracks across Europe - we're just having a bit of banter
You are completely right about the 'driver training' thing....a good driver will be faster in a standard car than an average driver in a modded car (up to a point obviously!) - and the great thing is that you can take the driver training 'mods' with you to your next car !
I highly recommend anyone to do some proper driver training (and I'm not talking about getting some of the 'circuit instructors' when you book on a trackday...this isn't proper driver training IMHO).
Just to wind Gordon up some more :-
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/874157
(ok, I know it's a B7 )
CSL is not crap in the wet...although it is with Cup tyres on !
Grip ultimately comes from tyres, traction comes from 4wd. So I'd bet a CSL would actually be quicker in the wet mid-corner than an RS4 (although it wouldn't get the power down as well after the corner).
To sum up - would you trust either of these dudes ?
http://www.corelabs.net/dodgyblokes.jpg
To make things clear (it's probably not apparent from the posts above) - myself and Gordon are great mates and have shared many a snoring bedroom together on our travels to tracks across Europe - we're just having a bit of banter
You are completely right about the 'driver training' thing....a good driver will be faster in a standard car than an average driver in a modded car (up to a point obviously!) - and the great thing is that you can take the driver training 'mods' with you to your next car !
I highly recommend anyone to do some proper driver training (and I'm not talking about getting some of the 'circuit instructors' when you book on a trackday...this isn't proper driver training IMHO).
Just to wind Gordon up some more :-
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/874157
(ok, I know it's a B7
)CSL is not crap in the wet...although it is with Cup tyres on !
Grip ultimately comes from tyres, traction comes from 4wd. So I'd bet a CSL would actually be quicker in the wet mid-corner than an RS4 (although it wouldn't get the power down as well after the corner).
To sum up - would you trust either of these dudes ?
http://www.corelabs.net/dodgyblokes.jpg
DaveP...
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast
Nice to hear more about the extensive testing at wet track days. The Movit procedure seemed quite a bit harder.
For me, the only problem has been time. But solving real world issues just takes time, and I'm confident the issue is solved with the new design. Thankfully there are no track days in the winter, so not too bad after all. Hope the AP solutions works for those who have invested their time and money to that.
For me, the only problem has been time. But solving real world issues just takes time, and I'm confident the issue is solved with the new design. Thankfully there are no track days in the winter, so not too bad after all. Hope the AP solutions works for those who have invested their time and money to that.
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