Movit discs on RS4 (problems) solved by AP Racing. Discuss

[flashyg]

I have decided to bring up this discussion as a result of my experiences with the Brembo/ movit brake discs.

I paid £5000 plus travel cost to buy these brakes from Germany Movit.

The company are and were a lovely group of people.

Only had one real issue with these brakes and that is the disc life.

DaveP and I bought them
Bushy had bought the same or similar a few months previously.
This was around 2003-4

From day 1 Dave and I were concerned by wobble and cracking.
We got around 5k per set of discs but were really fed up as these discs were supposed to have better life than oem, we lost confidence on track as the discs cracked dangerously after half a day or a day on track. Basically they could not take the heat.

We discussed the issues and wrote 10,s of emails; movit sent new discs same issues continued and another set and so on. The power was fantastic but disc life not at all acceptable, movit said they would send better discs and they would re engineer but to date 3 years later nothing has been done or forth coming.

They say new discs are coming but always the same issues returned, as the design is not good. (Drilled/ cast and not floating)

Personally I went thought 4 sets of discs they all cracked to the edges in no miles, there was plenty meat left on them but the drilling of the discs meant they are weakened and they just did not last after tracking.

Whilst all this was happening both Dave and I contacted other owners who bought the kit.

Stevesme, Tom - VST, Lucas-Hutch, Waitey 1, Dave P, Jani.

Basically the issues are clear to see on other cars like 6 pot Porches.

The heat is not so intense when a 4-pot calliper is used on the same disc, as the heat is not as great.
So those who spent serious money on a six pot front system had huge breaking power but not so powerful disc life. Many Porsche people have up graded from drill/cast Brembo discs also for the same reason.

I was either going to sell my car or solve the problem.
(Dave sold his car and said the breaks were a definite factor in this decision)

So I went to AP.
I had a fantastic Responce from AP and in no time they designed a fully floating 36 mm thick strap drive disc to replace the movit disc, it’s a simple swap.
Same disc is used on an e60 M5 upgrade and the AM Vanquish.
AP madder the brakes for the Veron, so they know their stuff, Movit sell rebadged copied Porch kit.

The day I had my new discs fitted was the day my car felt as it did before the movit discs were fitted. (Sorry movit but its the truth)
No wobble at 50-60 on light breaking.
A beautiful silky feel to the breaks - like a normal car!

But I had 36 mm 378mm monster discs of a fully floating strap drive bell by AP (not the 32 -365 OEM skinny cheap discs on floating pins.
So they are proper big and up for it.

This is without doubt my trouble with my breaks over. It was embarrassing and annoying to have been told by many people to give up on the movit breaks as these people did not realise- I forked out 5 k to try and get good safe brakes so I did not kill my self on track getting rid would either give a friend the same problem. Not my style.

I also had to face a company who already do a fantastic kit for the rs4, a British company whom I should have gone to, but I was faithfully assured movit were the best and to trust this advice.

So any way I’m going on and on.

The problem is solved.
Ill posts some pics if I can.

Please guys if you want to sort your selves out some serious discs at a seriously discounted price, let me know, as I would like to return some discounted directly priced orders to AP in return for developing this product.

Ap have not worked a fully costed price yet but if you want some strap drive discs for a current Ap set up or the movit 6 pot set up the retail cost for the Ap 365mm ones is £1000, Pete at AP said the price for a group may be in the region of £600.
He will do his best for us. These new discs could retail at over £1000 so a hefty discount.

What can you say, Fantastic!



My discs have no issues and have had serious hammer, I don’t worry about this issue any more

THANKYOU AP RACING.

(Please forgive my poor grammar and spelling)

[flashyg]

Further pics since I now know how to post pics.

[ScottyBoy]

Cheers Flashyg thats was interesting, i feel like i learnt something good from that.

[Chubby]

AP Racing have spent consideralble time and effort on getting there brakes right. Ther first disc, which was not the same as yours had the same effect as your movit brakes...

I have been through three sets in 12 months, with little or no help from AP Racing, infact they started by saying that the brakes 'are not designed for track days', and did not give any reasons to the cracking in the discs.

The cost of buying the new sprung discs are the same as buying a complete new system of the RS4 b7, which in my opinion are better than AP and Movit.

Let alone the waiting times you have to get the disc's (7 weeks) and the price of the pads, which I have gone through in one track day, and I feel you have gone from the frying pan into the fire.

Sorry but the truth sometimes hurts...

R.

[Chubby]

One last thought...

Why do AP Racing no longer advertise a kit for the RS4 and only the S4..

They will not last..

Pictures available if required...

R.

[flashyg]

Your opinion, but my experience is absolutely positive. You've never had this strap drive system and on that basis your opinion is welcome but not at all based on experience with the full floating system. This system was and is now available and the guy who bought your breaks has this system now and it is superb. No judder, that is unless you leave a cheap or unsuited pad on the face of the disc after a track day. (this can happen with any disc) but that discussion is for a new thread if needed.

I understand you ran the ecs yellow £99 a set, cheap IMHO and the B7 set up is not bad I agree, no argument.

The main point here Chubby is to help those with a major problem and to thank, a truly self less act from a large company.
Problem solved, simple as that.

[chalky]

OMG !!!!!

Now i,m seriously confused, after that informative write up i nearly opted for the AP Racing set up, I thought about the B7 RS4 Discs but didnt know the correct fittings, i,m at a loss now.

[flashyg]

Look and watch AP are awesome do not be put off, Look at all the forums F1, touring cars Track days etc.


Forums can really lead people badly.

I ain bullshitting neither are the F1 teams the veron on tv now so see ya.

Disregard the other comment by Chubby also

"One last thought... Why do AP Racing no longer advertise a kit for the RS4 and only the S4.."


Not true a blind man could find it.

http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/data.asp

http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/data.asp



Chubby you have not had this strap drive system nor the rear .

Sorry u did not get on with AP.



Plenty people here who do get on with AP.


There is one other member who does not get on with AP but this is not about getting on or not its about big brakes and solutions, very good ones.

G

Peace Man

[flashyg]

Sorry you cant link to the front and rear so blind people may need a little help.

Try this!

http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/dataselect.asp

Then go to:

Audi

Then go to Rs4 (front)

And also if required:

go to Rs4 (rear)

G

[TarmacTerrorist]

Ok, lets not let this thread totally dismiss all of Movits products.

I (along with many others) ran the original Movit 4 pot caliper with 380x32mm crossdrilled disc for a number of years and many trackdays with absolutely no ill effects what so ever. This kit however was not Movits own design, it was infact all rebadged brembo gear off the 97' Porsche GT2 or 3 (i cant rember which). I personally could not rate this kit enough as it worked and worked well!! Around the same time I bought the 4pot kit they were also selling a rebadged brembo 6pot kit, again using the 380x32mm brembo disc. These are the 6 pot calipers you generally see on porkers these days with the carbon setup (to look at them they are a very slender monoblock design). However this 6 pot kit could only be run with 19" rims or the rs4 winter rims and were very expensive to buy.

Basically all Movit did on both the 4 and 6 pot calliper was to make the bells and brackets and machine a few areas of the caliper to make them fit the rs4. It is fair to say they made a very good name for themselves off the back of brembo gear.....

The problems we are hearing now with Movit seem to have rose since they starting using their own design of calipers 'Movit Billet' (made by them) and using a disc manufactured by a. n. other undisclosed source.....

Immediate benefit to movit of course is that they are making more money by doing it this way and not having to buy in the main componenets, also the movit designed 6 pot 'billet' kit will fit under the standard 18" rim (but leaving very little room for cooling..........).

I said at the time they introduced this new kit that it needs to be good as the brembo stuff or better otherwise they will tarnish the name they have made....And whats happened?? Exactly that!!

My advise to anyone with the movit 6 pot 'billet' kit would be this....

Hand the <beep> back and demand a refund..

Hand the <beep> back and get a set of the brembo 4 pots with 380's off them and ask for either the price differnce back or consumables to the value of. i.e extra discs and pads etc...

0.02p


Gav

[PhilT]

AP Racing have spent consideralble time and effort on getting there brakes right. Ther first disc, which was not the same as yours had the same effect as your movit brakes...

I have been through three sets in 12 months, with little or no help from AP Racing, infact they started by saying that the brakes 'are not designed for track days', and did not give any reasons to the cracking in the discs.

The cost of buying the new sprung discs are the same as buying a complete new system of the RS4 b7, which in my opinion are better than AP and Movit.

Let alone the waiting times you have to get the disc's (7 weeks) and the price of the pads, which I have gone through in one track day, and I feel you have gone from the frying pan into the fire.

Sorry but the truth sometimes hurts...

R.

My experience with AP hasn't been the most positive. I have the non-strap original version and have had the following issues:

- Horrific vibration under braking
- Lack of replacement parts on the shelf (A couple of months wait for disks!!)
- Upgrade costs are unattractive and equivalent to buying new
- B7 RS4 setup seems far more attractive

I'm on my second set of discs, and once these have gone I'll be on the market for a new kit. I'll probably go B7 RS4 for the same reasons as Chubby.

It appears to me that the only people who are successful with AP are the ones that spend time in Coventry (AP HQ), screw the rest.

P.S. Gordon, if you are organising a Group Buy, please do so in the Group Buy forum and follow the instructions.

[si_hill]

My experience with AP hasn't been the most positive. I have the non-strap original version and have had the following issues:

- Horrific vibration under braking
- Lack of replacement parts on the shelf (A couple of months wait for disks!!)
- Upgrade costs are unattractive and equivalent to buying new
- B7 RS4 setup seems far more attractive

Well this is interesting. When I bought my S4 I was informed by the owner and MRC that it had recently had a brand new AP Racing 4 pot kit fitted to the front. I therefore found it rather strange that I get horrific virbration under braking. The brakes are fine for day to day driving but if you use them to brake hard or from high speeds the vibration is awful.

I put this down to the fact that perhaps the previous owner had cooked the discs and they were warped but now reading Phil's post I am not so sure.

Is there anything that can be done to reduce this vibration?

Is it worth me ditching this setup and going for the RS4 B7?

Can you get 3rd party discs to fit the AP callipers, someone mentioned maybe Alcon?

[Chubby]

Lets put the record straight.....

I am not saying that the AP Racing brakes were bad - infact they worked well...

Just didn't work for very long...

A set of pads and disc after every track day gets a little expensive.

Yes I have tried the new sprung disc from AP Racing.

I have tried Mintex, Ferodo and EBC pads - not much differance.

I have also driven RS4's with the Movits and the RS6 conversion.

I have also used the AP Racing caliper and B7 disc's.

The conclusion is that the AP Racing are good for one track day or one race (which is what they would be use in a racing car). The RS4 is a very heavy car and takes a good deal of stopping at speeds of 100 plus.

Track days put so much stress on brakes, most can't handle it.

They are very good for normal fast road use and will last.

The set I sold were in good condition and would be fine to use for both road and track, but I wanted something that would last.

Talking to AP Racing all I was told was that the disc "got hot" over 750 C and at that temp the disc will crack.

The RS4 B7 brakes do not crack under track use, they do not stop quite as well as the Movit or the AP Racing but last longer and still do the job.

After a track session I have it de-glased using a Pro-Cut machine and they are perfect again.

No I do not have the AP Racing rear brakes - as they were not designed when I got the fronts.

I have GMBH drilled rears, which work fine but still the pads only do two track days before being replaced.

So it would seem from the above that I DO have more than the fair share of knowledge in brakes for the RS4, but it really depends on the end user, and how they drive.

The point I was trying to get over was don't think that one set of disc's will be better than another in every way, what you gain on the round-a-bouts you lose on the swings...

R.

[Chubby]

Look and watch AP are awesome do not be put off, Look at all the forums F1, touring cars Track days etc.

Disregard the other comment by Chubby also

"One last thought... Why do AP Racing no longer advertise a kit for the RS4 and only the S4.."

I have tried the strap system - Thank You - and I do know that the F1 and Touring car teams use AP Racing.....

But did you know they only use tham once then throw them away..... and the cars are much lighter if you didn't realise so they should last longer...

Get the facts right son before commenting on others....

R.

[flashyg]

Your opinion has been heard Chubby. Really not worth arguing, my experience is positive in a back-to-back comparison Movit / AP.

Sorry you fell the above statement was true:
"One last thought... Why do AP Racing no longer advertise a kit for the RS4 and only the S4.."
This is not true. But it does not matter; your experiences are absolutely valid for you.

I was getting 5k road miles from the movits now the AP discs will give 20k spirited - 40k Road, at least I expect, without issue no vibration etc. (Saying that I did experience serious vibration but it was caused by serious pad deposit and scouring On Spa but once home I changed pad and all was perfect again Sh1t Happens with brakes).

So I am delighted, as I understand the product. I certainly think other people in my position will be happy with this design.

Sorry I do not mean to P1ss any one off.

Sorry you feel so cynical about this Phil, really. AP helped me and others who are stuck in this position. It’s not very nice to suggest the only people saying good thing about AP are those who visit. This is an insulting remark against my character, but no offence is taken, as I do not believe you really believe I would say something is good as a result of personal contact rather than experience.

Gav if it was so easy to dump the kit, I would have but now it is as I expected and wanted it to be. I just walked away from movit in the end, as they just would not engineer a solution, that’s all that was needed. Nice people at Movit I just did not need an argument. (Arguments with break companies don’t go well)

Thanks for all the input it is so clear that breaks are a hot topic and thanks to all for the communications Chubby included. No offence at all intended and I know you have plenty of experience.

G
(What a con of worms)