RS4 engine trouble

[SuperRS4]

I own one of the South Africna launch cars since June this year. at about 12000 km the engine blew. Looks like possible snapped conrods.Stil waiting for the report.Engine was replaced under warranty. Proof that you have to follow the drive in procedure. BY the way, it happened at about 8000 rpm in fourth gear.

[Andyuk911]

got a pix, car, engine.

So you are saying the running in was not followed and thrashed from cold and Audi still replaced the engine for free.

At least you have a new engine.

Please provide the report when you get it

[SuperRS4]

Well the vehicle was one of Audi's launch cars. They launch the RS4 to prospective buyers on the track .I got the car with 3000km .Tyres,clutch and brakes were replaced before the car was given to me. I assume the car was probally trashed from about a couple of hundred km.

[alex_123_fra]

I own one of the South Africna launch cars since June this year. at about 12000 km the engine blew. Looks like possible snapped conrods.Stil waiting for the report.Engine was replaced under warranty. Proof that you have to follow the drive in procedure. BY the way, it happened at about 8000 rpm in fourth gear.

This doesn't "prove" anything. Potential options are:

1. You just happened to get a badly built one - unlikely
2. It wasn't properly warmed up prior to severe thrashing - very likely
3. It was badly maintained and allowed to run on low oil while being driven hard - also likely

The running-in procedure is completely irrelevant. A car with x,000 miles may have been run-in perfectly but if the oil isn't allowed to warm to optimal temperature, massive engine wear will result (especially if driven like a demo car). In fact there is a large cohort of car experts who believe that manufacturer's running-in procedures are complete bollocks. As long as the car is properly warmed-up/down you can exceed the "recommended" running-in revs early on. In fact, it is recommended that you do:

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I used this running-in method when I bought a brand new honda civic type-R in 2003. I felt ok about doing it as the dealership said to me that I didn't need to run the car in. The car never used a drop of oil as top up and was significantly quicker when compared to other standard CTRs from the CTR club.

[MarkB]

I had a TVR that had glazed the bores because of poor running in. The oil was too good and car driven too gently. An engine needs to be 'worked' to break it in well.

I hate the way engines leave the factory these days not needing a service for the first 20K miles.

You also get problems with people not checking oil levels because of the extended service intervals, also REALLY bad for the engine

[Merlot]

8000 rpm in 4th is moving a bit. What's it like having an engine 'give up' at high revs and high speed?

[RI_RS4]

I own one of the South Africna launch cars since June this year. at about 12000 km the engine blew. Looks like possible snapped conrods.Stil waiting for the report.Engine was replaced under warranty. Proof that you have to follow the drive in procedure. BY the way, it happened at about 8000 rpm in fourth gear.

Super, please keep us advised on the outcome from the factory and root cause of the problem.

Could I ask you to contact me regarding your engine failure? One question I have about your car is what engine oil was being used and how long since your last oil change. I have been researching engine oil in the RS4 for 6 months now, and have come to some interesting conclusions here in the US. I currently have 11K miles (18k km) on my engine.

Scott

RI_RS4
scott@teraspeed.com

[alex_123_fra]

I own one of the South Africna launch cars since June this year. at about 12000 km the engine blew. Looks like possible snapped conrods.Stil waiting for the report.Engine was replaced under warranty. Proof that you have to follow the drive in procedure. BY the way, it happened at about 8000 rpm in fourth gear.

Super, please keep us advised on the outcome from the factory and root cause of the problem.

Could I ask you to contact me regarding your engine failure? One question I have about your car is what engine oil was being used and how long since your last oil change. I have been researching engine oil in the RS4 for 6 months now, and have come to some interesting conclusions here in the US. I currently have 11K miles (18k km) on my engine.

Scott

RI_RS4
scott@teraspeed.com

Scott,

Care to share?

[Andyuk911]

Scott,

I understand the oil is Castrol Longlife III and the consumer version is Edge 5-30W.

I phoned and checked with Castrol UK who really knew their stuff.

Please share what you are up to/ know

Andy

[RI_RS4]

Andy, Alex, send me an email and I'll share what I know with you offline.
scott@teraspeed.com

Recommendations in the States are different than Europe. SA may be different yet. Can you tell me when the 1st required oil change occurs at in the UK? Con rods rarely fail by themselves. Usually it's due to a bearing failure.

[RI_RS4]

Andy, I just got off the phone with you. I'll recap a bit for the rest of the forum.

In the US I've been working with an engine oil analysis to better understand this engine since the day my car was delivered. I now have 12K miles on the engine, with oil samples taken periodically since 1800 miles, and there are a few conclusions that can be drawn from the data.

1) The FSI engine pumps a high quantity of fuel at a high pressure into the cylinder. Most of this fuel is burnt. Some of this fuel is washed down the cylinder walls and ends up in the oil. Oil analysis has shown that 1.5% to 2% fuel dilution occurs in this engine, and that this fuel dilution breaks down the oil, lowers it's viscosity, increases the engine acids, and basically increases wear. This occurs rapidly, within the 1st 500 miles after an oil change, and literally forces the oil to fight for it's life.

2) At 1800 miles the factory delivered oil in the engine was totally thrashed. It had been sheared down to a 20 weight oil and was depleated of most of it's detergent package.

3) We've shown through analysis that in lieu of direct injection oil fuel dilution, wear in this engine would be extremely low. As soon as fuel dilution kicks in, engine wear goes up. Because of this I've been changing my oil at 3000 mile intervals, so I do not know what happens when the contaminated oil is left in the engine. But, I suspect that wear increases rapidly.

4) In the US oil changes are required at 5000 miles and than every 10000 miles thereafter. There is no way that any oil we've sampled yet will make it to a 10K mile oil change without huge wear in the engine.

5) In Europe the longlife spec is used, and the engine computer tells you when to change the oil. In the case of Andy's car, it says the 1st change is still 17000 km away. For my money that is just too long.

This is why I wondered when I read about the rod failure in South Africa. Rods usually fail because of bearing seizure. And bearings seize because of either over rev abuse or catestrophic oil failure, which is why I asked what oil is in the engine and how long has it been since the last change. What I fear is that it has been a long time since the oil has been changed, and that this is the consequence of following the factory recommendations on oil.

[ZeroK66]

Oh dear.... interesting read. Personally if I owned one of these I would ditch the long life, stick in Catrol Edge RS 10w60 and change every 5k... if you are an enthusiast that is. If you plan on owning it 2-3 years (On lease or otherwise) and going to hand it back... who cares.

[RI_RS4]

10w60 would not be appropriate for this engine. It is much too heavy a viscosity for an engine with tight clearances and Formula 1 piston speeds. 10w60 oils are designed for engines with large bearing clearances. This engine has clearances that run down to 0.39 thousandths inch. What you want here is an oil designed to be a mid-30W oil and stays there under chemical and mechanical stress, not an oil that has a super-wide viscosity range created by viscosity index enhanceing polymers that rip apart and shear to a lower viscosity.

Castrol Edge 5W30 may be a perfect oil for this engine, but if you're doing full power high rpm runs often (and RS4 enthusiasts have a propensity for doing that) you want to change out the oil early and often. Even 5K miles is too late for my blood ... but I'd like to keep my car for at least 150K miles.

[DuncanMac]

Me thinks Ill be changing my oil v.soon now... 7k miles and I 'enjoy' my car frequently.

[LegalEagle]

I've done 2k miles now and am changing the oil and filter in a week. Will be having the oil analysed at the same time.