S4 K04 Conversion

[PhilT]

Someone mention VAG Parts [img]images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/thumbs.gif[/img]

Sounds like you could do with advertising on here [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] .

[Joshie]

So have I got this right?


S4 2.7T plus K04 plus AMD remap plus miltek plus intake pipes = 395bhp

No. KO4's plus full Miltek (includes high flow downpipes and cat back) plus remap MAY get 395 to 410 depending upon the engine. Mine was in good shape 271 and I ended up with 395. But then a month later it was dynod at 385 - think this was due to faulty DV's now rectified. My point is that every engine is different and therefore tuners like AmD cannot guarantee a result in terms of HP or torque.

With an MTM chip, such as mine, this combination = 345bhp.
Is the AMD remap so much better at producing the goods?

I understood that in order to get to 395 ish - you would need to add the fuel pump with injectors plus a few other RS4 bits.

Not sure what you mean Blueone. Are you saying that your car has a simple remap and produces 345?

A far as outputs are concerned then what I am asking is that if I added new injectors, airbox, MAF, fuel pump would I be able to generate more HP over the 395 base.



[/quote]

[zeke]

Well, I just remap my S4 with the GIAC "x" chip and is has 70 h.p. increse with just the chip and the exhaust. You can check it up in giacusa.com Just wait when I change the fuel inyector and the turbos for K04.
Regards

[Dippy]

Don't forget that US spec cars start with 250 hp, so +70 hp is just bringing it in line with Euro chipped cars.

The GIAC 'X' chip raises boost to 1.2-1.3 bar, the same as the chipped Euro cars here. I would advise against the 'XR' chip as it raises the boost to 1.4 bar, something which will certainly shorten the lifespan of the turbos [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I quite like the way the AmD map takes the boost up to 1.3 bar under hard acceleration, but brings it back down to 1.0-1.1 bar as soon as there's a slight lift-off. Although I may want RS4 turbos one day, I'd like to get reasonable use out of my K03's first [img]images/graemlins/boots.gif[/img]

[Joshie]

I'd like to get reasonable use out of my K03's first [img]images/graemlins/boots.gif[/img]

We'll have to swap cars at the next meet for a quick test drive. I am not sure there will be a HUGE difference as you are getting good HP and torque figures Dave with just the full Miltek.

It'll be interesting to see.

If there is a very large difference of course this may lead you to make a quicker decision of the KO4's [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Blueone]

Never had my car on a rolling road - so not sure what hp it does produce. (mtm plus K04 plus miltek = fast car)

My comment was based on the power quoted on the MTM web site for K04s exhaust etc. not 395bhp - as the mechanical elements are more or less the same - is the 50hp down to the chip?


I've possibly lost the plot - but hey!
[img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Joshie]

Never had my car on a rolling road - so not sure what hp it does produce. (mtm plus K04 plus miltek = fast car)

My comment was based on the power quoted on the MTM web site for K04s exhaust etc. not 395bhp - as the mechanical elements are more or less the same - is the 50hp down to the chip?


I've possibly lost the plot - but hey!
[img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

No worries mate. Perhaps the 345 applies to the KO4's without the downpipes which would account for the 50HP I would have thought. I'll have to have a look at the site though.

[Dippy]

We'll have to swap cars at the next meet for a quick test drive. I am not sure there will be a HUGE difference as you are getting good HP and torque figures Dave with just the full Miltek.

Thanks for the offer - I'll take you up on it.

You still have a fair bit more torque than me (415 lbft) so I'd expect to feel a difference.

Anyway that's my point - since the difference is good but not 'huge', I'd like to uprate the turbos only when I feel that I have got my 'money's worth' from my first set! I'm sure you agree - when my turbos die it would be madness to put another set of KO3s on!

[Dippy]

Never had my car on a rolling road - so not sure what hp it does produce. (mtm plus K04 plus miltek = fast car)

I think you still might be missing out on the best from your car. It's safe to say that the 'standard' chip for the S4 will work well on most S4s. However as soon as other mods are done it is a good idea to have a custom map.

My car is a perfect example of this. I had the Miltek cats fitted and it felt a lot better. However then I had a custom remap done and it went a stage further.

I would expect even more difference with KO4s. Your MTM chip was developed on a different car, so it might not be optimal. By using a RR, like Joshie had done, maximum performance can be achieved. Unfortunately unless you live in Germany, you can't achieve this with MTM. We have a mutual friend, Ram, who had an MTM KO4 car but was not happy with it. He got a custom remap done by AmD and got much better results.

Anyway, I looked at the MTM website and couldn't see a 345 hp version. Their 'additional turbochargers and fuel system' is specced at 370 hp', and then they have a 420 hp tune which requires gas-flowed heads and exhaust manifold...

...and that's what I was referring to Ian. To really get much more power out of your car you need to get the gases flowing better. Certainly the exhaust manifold is restrictive, but a new one would need the head to be ported to suit.

[Joshie]

...and that's what I was referring to Ian. To really get much more power out of your car you need to get the gasses flowing better. Certainly the exhaust manifold is restrictive, but a new one would need the head to be ported to suit.

You're probably right, but I have read that the standard S4 Air box and MAF together with the injectors is a bottlekneck to higher HP levels. Just wondered if there was a bit more to be had there, that's all. The RS4 manifold apparently produces more HP (coupled with a new cylinder head) but torque is lower.

Need to see what AmD and MTM say at the GTI exhibition next weekend.

[Blueone]

Dooh! yep 370bhp it is - need new glasses or eyes or something -

Anyway - I am happy with my car really - but understand your comments regarding a bespoke remap (worth thinking about).

I just can't quite take in why Audi involved Cosworth plus significant ££££££ in development for 390bhp - when it appears that 400bhp is available quite cheaply in relative terms.

It is quite probable that they would say reliability - but I have 60K on mine and intend to go to 100k plus as per my previous A4 1.8T with MTM chip so would not be totally convinced about this point.

Or did Audi involve Cosworth for the additional Kudos and exclusivity in order charge a premium for the car (cynical or what eh!)- or did they build with the intention of additional tuning by you RS4 chaps?. [img]images/graemlins/tung2.gif[/img]

[Dippy]

You're probably right, but I have read that the standard S4 Air box and MAF together with the injectors is a bottlekneck to higher HP levels.

...in conjunction with a remap. We had this conversation before though - IIRC Scott advised that you didn't need the RS4 fuel pump & injectors.

The RS4 manifold apparently produces more HP (coupled with a new cylinder head) but torque is lower.

Er.. strictly speaking thats not true as HP is a function of torque and revs - the higher the torque, the higher the horsepower. I believe that if you derestrict the exhaust you can get a situation where although torque is higher at higher revs because of less back-pressure, there is a disadvantage that torque is reduced at lower revs. However the reason why is beyond me at the moment.

[Dippy]

It is quite probable that they would say reliability - but I have 60K on mine and intend to go to 100k plus as per my previous A4 1.8T with MTM chip so would not be totally convinced about this point.

Yes, reliability and fuel consumption. However as you point out, chipped cars can have no problems up to and beyond 100K miles. However I've also heard of chipped and unchipped cars needing new turbos at relatively low mileage...

[Joshie]

...in conjunction with a remap. We had this conversation before though - IIRC Scott advised that you didn't need the RS4 fuel pump & injectors.

I think that that Scott's advice was in the context of a standard tuning package from Wayside Audi which was the achievement of c400 HP through the addition of the KO4's and the Miltek DP's . He was right when he said you don't need the other additions to achieve this power output.

But looking at the US sites it appears the there are tangible gains to be had in improving airflow and fuel flow, in conjunction, of course with a remap. That is why I am asking the question again.

[Dippy]

OK, but that seems a bit poor. If you had been advised at the time that by including these few extra parts you could get more power, you may well have done it then, even if it was a separate agreement with AmD?