Owners verdict B5 and B7

[JustinM]

This is my first message here. I only found this site last week.

I thought you may like to hear about the week I have just spent in Germany with a friend who has a new B7 RS4. He has never had an RS4 before. I currently have a B5 RS4.

We spent the week comparing both cars on autobahns and country roads. Here is our joint verdict.

Parked side by side, we both agreed that the B5 looked awesome even though its 5 years old. The B7 looks just like any other sporty A4. The B5 looks like something special with its wide arches. The B7 looks like it has added on aftermarket bits.

The B7 interior is far superior. He has race cloth seats which are outstanding. My B5 has Hitec seats. The B5 interior looks like a standard A4. The B7 makes you feel special.

The B7 has more interior room although the front seats are not as comfortable as a B5. In fact we both agreed that the B5 seats are far more comfortable. The B7 seats look the business but after two hours in the car they are very uncomfortable. The stupid 'sport' button makes them even more uncomfortable because the sides close in.

The B5 starts with a key. The B7 starts with a button and a key. Why? we both asked.

The B7 gearbox is fantastic. It's far better than the B5

The B7 brakes were very good. Stopping at 130mph on the autobahn was excellent. As anyone who has a B5 knows, stopping at 130mph with standard brakes is a joke. So I like many have special brakes

The B7 suspension and road feel was much better than B5. I have quattro gmbh suspension on my B5 but it is not as good as the standard B7 suspension. The B7 really felt good and stable on country roads

The B7 engine is awful. It's noisey, rough and nowhere near as smooth and lively and responsive as the B7. We did back to back runs and both agreed the B5 is quicker, sounds better and is much smoother. As he said, when the B5 accelerates, its sounds like a jet taking off. The B7 sounds like a bumble bee. After an hour on the autobahn you just want to scream because the noise is so irritating. I think this surprised him the most. He couldn't believe how much better the B5 felt and sounded. In fact for me, it was a good reason never to own one. The engine that Audi has talked about so much is the worst part of the car. You have to rev it (and then put up with the noise) to appreciate it. You can't just squeeze the accelerator like and instantly speed up like you can in a B5. You have to gear down and rev it.

As I said, we did lots of driving of both cars, swapping from one to another and making our individual notes. It's amzaing how much we agreed on even though he owns a B7 and I own a B5

We noticed that people always turned to look at the B5 but only once did someone turn to look at the B7!!

The B7 road manners, handling, brakes and interior are better than B5
The B5 looks, comfort and engine are better than the B7

Our verdict: An existing B5 owner will not be impressed enough to trade-in his car. When you walk up to a B5 there is a wow factor that the B7 does not have. In fact it looks like many other new A4's on the road. But someone who has never owned an RS4 will be delighted with a B7.

My firiend said that if he could get a new B5, we would buy it instead of the B7 !!!

My verdict: I shall be keeping my B5 until Audi wake up and stop trying to chase BMW. The B7 is a great disappointment.

Finally, those that disagree, don't shoot the messenger! I need to replace my car, so I wanted the B7 to be good, but it didn't come close as a replacement.

Justin

[MattC]

I dont want to agree, but I have to. I do like the looks of the B7, the Avant for me has the edge but the B5 was as close to a motorbike as you could jet. The B5 does sounds and feel like a jet car. The B7 is however good but the B5 has my vote, and I currently have one of each.

I also am very concerned about how relaible the B7 will be, I thinks its going to be a clutch eater.

Still, we can all start looking forword to the new RS6 now the RS4 is out.

[Riz_RS4]

Mmm very mixed comments.......

Suppose everybody has individual tastes......

Riz

[bobjebb]

Doesn't sound too mixed to me... I'll reserve judgment until nearer the time, but if my B7 was due in the near future, I would definately have one eye on the classifieds for a B5, and in the unlikely event I found one that had been stored with a few thousand miles on the clock, I really think I know which I'd have!

[Riz_RS4]

Doesn't sound too mixed to me... I'll reserve judgment until nearer the time, but if my B7 was due in the near future, I would definately have one eye on the classifieds for a B5, and in the unlikely event I found one that had been stored with a few thousand miles on the clock, I really think I know which I'd have!

Well I did have my eye on a Noggy blue B5 RS4, priced at £30,000 with 27k miles on the clock, not really spec`ed well and with cloth interior.

Ive been in a passenger in a couple of RS4`s in the past in tuned formats and no office to current RS4 B5 owners they sound like a normal V6`s with a blowing noise... I would even go as far to say the my R32 sounds way better than the B5 RS4 engine....... mixed views in reference to all the positive comments by reviews, road tests and members of various forums....

I totally disagree but like I said, everybody is individual.

Riz

[s4aero]

I agree with Riz. While no offense is meant to the reviewer, the comments made are very subjective. We have read the exact opposite comments as well.

Smooth linear power delivery, superb response, etc. etc. Clarkson's review was one of the most glowing I have seen to date, and he has driven everything the RS is being compared to.

I have a B5 S4 (sadly, the RS never made it to the states), and while I love the car, the difference in the level of refinement is astonishing in 5 years of development. I know that the S is NOT the RS.

I have placed my order, and will read everything possible between now and delivery. If the concensus of the owners and reviewers is that it the new RS fails to make its own mark then I may back out before acceptance.

I'm sure that there will be bimmer owners who long for the old M3 after the new one is released, too.

Frankly, I beleive that this car will be the 4-door, AWD super-saloon that we've been led to expect.

[Brooner]

I have to say that the noise from the engine is one of the things i loved about the B7 ok there is no kick in the back when you floor the peddle but there is plenty of rush as you red line the engine mined you i was only a half hour test drive, i agree with the handling such an inproovment on the B5 and the brakes enough said currantly upgrading mine to RS6 calipers, but the look of the car though i was one that said it was a dog when the pictures sarted to come out i have to eat my words an must say i do like the syling now iv'e seen it in the flesh, but i've never been a big fan of the Audi saloons always thought the Avants looked a better car hence my last 3 audis have been avants S2,S4,RS4 and i would think the avant will stand it's ground aganst th B5 in the looks department as the B7 saloon is a vast inprovment on the S4 B7 but this is only my opinion and it would be a dull world if we all thought the same

[Doc]

Ive been in a passenger in a couple of RS4`s in the past in tuned formats and no office to current RS4 B5 owners they sound like a normal V6`s with a blowing noise... I would even go as far to say the my R32 sounds way better than the B5 RS4 engine....... mixed views in reference to all the positive comments by reviews, road tests and members of various forums....

I totally disagree but like I said, everybody is individual.

Riz

Well, well, Riz provocative as usual...

R32 sounds better than the RS, humm do you mean after you go beyond 3k rpm and the terrible drone of the OEM exhaust or do you mean with a miltek, otherwise you're having a laugh

Viewing magazine road testers comments with a modicum of scepticism is no bad thing as they rarely live with the car unless on long-term test AND an owners viewpoint will invariably carry a somewhat different emphasis.

Must admit the personal opinion of those who have more experience of driving the B7 than I provides useful insights for us to judge the cars too. Perhaps you can share your thoughts when yours arrives....Sure it'll be different to your R32

...and JustinM thanks for the insights matey

[PhilT]

Interesting write up Justin, thank for taking the time. As a B5 RS4 owner, the B7 quattro GmbH brand dilution concerns me along with the points that you mention. The B7 seems like a technological advance on the B5, but then you'd expect it to 5 years later. There needs to be a _very_ good reason to swap my B5 for a B7, and with the apparent keen-ness of my dealer to notify me that they have a demonstrator and that I can finally spec the Avant I have re-ordered three times since 2001..... I'm just not sure that it's worth the effort.

[Sutters]

mmm, what you must remeber the B7 is not trying to be a B5! comparing engines is pointless, sound and responce will be totally different obviously.

I think what Riz is saying is its horses for courses, we see B5 owners love and hate it.

I am sure Audi are aware of eveyones concerns with eth new model, selling every car hasn't seemed to be a problem so it can't be that bad.hence why they have built a sloon (for me) and a Avant for the upgrading B5 owners. Also a cab for the Audi loving hair dresser ..Everyone is catered for.

[MattC]

As a B5 RS4 owner, the B7 quattro GmbH brand dilution concerns me

Phil, I have to agree, shall we start a new debate over if their should even be a saloon or cab?

Shoud RS models be avants?

[PhilT]

Shoud RS models be avants?

We did all this when the RS6 was released.... Net result was saloon was for the US market and meant more $$$$. Everybody has a price I suppose.

Personally I'd like to see a good argument for not sticking to the Avant. Thinks of the days when the Volvo estates used to win races.....

[RS4ever]

Our verdict: An existing B5 owner will not be impressed enough to trade-in his car. When you walk up to a B5 there is a wow factor that the B7 does not have. In fact it looks like many other new A4's on the road. But someone who has never owned an RS4 will be delighted with a B7.

My thoughts exactly. It seems most of the enthusiasm for the car is coming from non-B5 owners.

[Golich]

Good write up JustinM.

Although I’m surprised by some of your comments. Particularly the exhaust/engine noise and seat comments.

You've certainly got my thoughts going:

Re the exhaust and engine of the B5. – Put simply, you can’t hear either in a stock B5. That’s fine if you want to go quietly – but I guess you’ve got to ask yourself what/who is an RS designed for? As it’s Audi’s top sports car in that model group. It’s surely aimed at enthusiasts, those who really appreciate everything sporty. I’d like to think I speak for the majority of enthusiasts that we like to hear the roar of a powerful engine otherwise we would simply buy a cruising machine etc. However, we also don’t like to hear it all the time. eg. A five hour mundane motorway cruise while we’re trying to listen to our favourite music. This is where I think the “S” button is quite clever on Audi’s part. Audi are trying to accommodate for everyone’s preference and then some with their changing moods. Its surely a thumbs up. That is of course unless the quiet mode isn’t quite enough!

Re the seats - I love the new seats. So much so I'm seriously considering spending what I imagine will be well in excess of £3000 for a pair for my B5.

The “S” button comes with a “Set” button. I’m assuming (as the salesman didn’t know) that this allows you to preset your preferred seat width for both the back and leg bolsters. It doesn’t really get any better than that for custom fitment. You can leave the seats wide with little bolster support for normal driving and comfort (i.e. non “S” mode) then when you want to go for it. Hit the “S” button. That “S” button does exactly what it is intended to - makes the exhaust/engine more audible and in come the seats and the engine map is adjusted so bang goes the best fuel economy – but then you would expect to get great fuel economy from wringing the neck of a 400+ bhp. That little “S” button gives you the best of both worlds. What would you have liked them to do?

Personally, I'm very disappointed with Recaro's attempts in my B5. I think they got the basic ergonomics horribly wrong. I find them very uncomfortable for my skinny frame. I should qualify - I'm 11stone 5-10. I move around in what is meant to be a sports seat. I accept it’s not designed to be a true racing seat. However, there is way too much side bolster and its way too low with no shoulder restraint. They clearly recognised this when the B6 equivalent seat came out. It has far more shoulder restraint and is also narrower as is all the Audi seats since the B5 era.

One of the fundamental objectives of a sports seat is about restraining the body’s centre of gravity. Once sat down you could say your CoG moves from your hips to approximately the upper chest level. (Depends how big your heed is compared to your beer gut.) My upper body desperately needs lateral support in the B5 seat (no cheeky comments) as I try to stay in place via the steering wheel and even then you get the localised side bolsters digging into you ribs. Passengers have an even worse time as they’ve no steering wheel.

Of course any seat designer is trying to accommodate a huge range of sizes. That's why I find it so disappointing that Recaro allegedly one of the top in seat design have only now offered a seat that adjusts to individual widths. Loads of other Jap manufacturers were doing this over 10 years ago! Hopefully Recaro designers will take some notice of the office chairs they sit in and realise they need to make the lumber support adjustable in the vertical direction also.

I can see me keeping my B5 for as long as it stays together but I’d like to think I’ll have a B7 too.

If only Audi had made it turbo charged a little bit more puffed out at the wings! OOoo roll on the B8!!!

[wootans]

bugger just sold my rs6 saloon and im not a yank . loved it deeply but sold it b4 the warranty ran out and coz 2 weeks to arrival of rs4 (b7) not happy to hear lots of u dont like it. i hope you are wrong and will let you know what i think as soon as i get fed up driving it which if it was anything like the rs6 will be in about three years when i hope to get the new rs6
ian