RS6 Track Brakes

[RS61]

I've been searching around the forum for an answer to this, but there doesn't seem to be one.

Does anyone regularly track their C7 RS6, and if so then what brake setup is best?

Now I know everyone's going to say that the RS6 isn't a track car and the answer is not to do it. But that's not what I'm after - I really like it as a track car, and do quite a few trips to the ring in it each year.

After the first time, Audi told me the ceramic disks were fried, and replaced them under warranty (much like a few other people here it seems). But now, with only 10k miles on the clock, and only two ring trips since then, apparently the disks are fried again, and they're refusing to change them under warranty.

I'm definitely not going to chuck £10k away to replace them, so there must be a better option - something more durable for the track, or something that is almost as good but much cheaper to keep replacing.

Anyone have any experience to share?

[Surrey Sam]

When you say fried. How so, what symptoms?

I've seen Ceramics catch fire after insufficient cooling down on an RS6, as they will run hotter than a steel setup for track duties. However, using an RS6 for track work will kill any brakes regardless of material. Changing steels out each time at one tenth of the price to that of Ceramics, may well be a more affordable alternative. Even if its at the expense of some performance.

[Markp]

Not tracked a 6, but many miles on track in GT3s and Alcon and Performance Friction both have excellent reputation (PF surprisingly good value too). Not sure if they do C7 RS6 kits but worth enquiring. Brembo do one but for A6 rather than RS6 specific from memory so would need to check spec.
A lot of Audi forums like Tarox but I have heard mixed reviews on longevity.
http://www.tarox.co.uk/shop/make/audi/make-audi-rs6-c7/
Definitely avoid standard steels from Audi though

[S2GTR]

Had the same issue with Audi on steel discs, replaced once under warranty, then refused 2nd time around! Never even taken it on track!

Only discs I can find are the oem ones from Audi or Tarox, having the steel oem discs skimmed on Monday.

As regards the pads, it appears these are only available from Audi, TRW & Mintex have them listed in their catalogues, but no stock or eta at the moment.

Curious to see what other options there are?

Dave.

[RS61]

Looks like there's nothing then.. I was about to go standard audi steels but thanks for the advice, I'll give them a miss. Had them on a C5 a decade ago and they were awful on the track. And there are no aftermarket kits - emailed most of the tuners and the brake companies.

When I say fried, I'm using the wrong term. Apparently the disks are all cracked and unsafe, and I have to take audi's word for it. I don't go too hard on the brakes on the track, certainly nothing like how they run the BMW ring taxis, flooring the pedal into every corner. There's definitely something wrong with them on the rs.

[LittleDevil]

Try this.

http://shop.o-brake.com/epages/78443999 ... o-brake%22

http://shop.o-brake.com/epages/78443999 ... nformation

http://shop.o-brake.com/epages/78443999 ... yp%204G%22

[LittleDevil]

Do you have any pictures from your brakes?

[Heden]

Looks like there's nothing then.. I was about to go standard audi steels but thanks for the advice, I'll give them a miss. Had them on a C5 a decade ago and they were awful on the track. And there are no aftermarket kits - emailed most of the tuners and the brake companies.

When I say fried, I'm using the wrong term. Apparently the disks are all cracked and unsafe, and I have to take audi's word for it. I don't go too hard on the brakes on the track, certainly nothing like how they run the BMW ring taxis, flooring the pedal into every corner. There's definitely something wrong with them on the rs.

Maybe that is the culprit right there. Brakes last longer if you brake hard and with determination. What normally kills a brake disc is braking with less force during a longer period of time. That way heat will build up and transfer brake pad material and also cook the brake fluid.

But you probably already know this.

Regards,
Niclas

[Markp]

Looks like there's nothing then.. I was about to go standard audi steels but thanks for the advice, I'll give them a miss. Had them on a C5 a decade ago and they were awful on the track. And there are no aftermarket kits - emailed most of the tuners and the brake companies.

When I say fried, I'm using the wrong term. Apparently the disks are all cracked and unsafe, and I have to take audi's word for it. I don't go too hard on the brakes on the track, certainly nothing like how they run the BMW ring taxis, flooring the pedal into every corner. There's definitely something wrong with them on the rs.

Maybe that is the culprit right there. Brakes last longer if you brake hard and with determination. What normally kills a brake disc is braking with less force during a longer period of time. That way heat will build up and transfer brake pad material and also cook the brake fluid.

But you probably already know this.

Regards,
Niclas

Interesting paradox. The fastest guys I have tracked / raced with often have the least problem with the brakes. Commitment, short and sharp seems the way. If only I had their balls...

[Paulm]

Shudder is not normally caused by warped disks, more the uneven transfer of bake pad material to the disk. Driving like a muppet more often than not stops brake shudder as the brakes are so hot the pad does not transfer to the disk causing vibration.

Normal'ish driving on fast road Pad material causes all the problems

[Surrey Sam]

Here are some Audi pdf documents on Ceramic brakes. These are well publicised to dealers before the C7 RS6 was a twinkle in the Neckarsulm production lines eye; the principle however, is the same.

Have a read through to familiarise yourself with what's acceptable and what's not, with regards to Ceramic brake disc wear. Then inspect your own.

Audi Ceramic Brakes.pdf

(1.77 MiB) Downloaded 267 times

Audi Ceramic Brakes 2.pdf

(1.57 MiB) Downloaded 189 times

Certain cracks are more than acceptable, others are not.

[RS61]

Best forum ever.

LittleDevil - do you have experience with the o-brakes? Does anyone have them on their car? Certainly look promising. And cheaper

Heden - I was "sort of" aware of this, ie I wasn't afraid to brake hard, but I'm not sure my confidence level allows me to just brake hard and once per corner, especially on the ring with no runoff. So I may well be doing some extra damage with my type of track driving. And the brake fluid got cooked every single time. Sponginess just a few laps in..

On that note - any advice for best track / race fluid? I remember an old thread that talked about the importance of having a specific compatible one..

Surrey Sam - that's extremely helpful, will check the disk out this morning. Going out for a long drive to the airport shortly so will take photos of the disks too..

[IanH755]

As well as the fluid I'd look to see if you can get Pagid RSC1 pads which will be much better at heat management than the Audi ones.

Anyway, the fluids in order of highest temps and all DOT4 -

Motul RBF 660 - 325'c
AP Racing PRF660 (re-branded as Radi-CAL™ R3) - 325'c - there's also 3 other AP Racing fluid's ranging from 280'c to a huge 340'c.
ATE Type 200 (aka ATE Superblue without the blue dye) - 285'c

I'm on ATE Superblue but I'll probably switch to either Motul or AP in the summer. It would be better if there was a bigger reservoir (maybe an extra 500ml) as that would double the amount of fluid in the system (usually 500ml total) which would hugely increase the time it takes to "boil".

[APA_telford]

You may want to look into AP Racing 2 piece floating discs with a pagid RS or PMU brake pad

[RS61]

Nice, thank you, will definitely look into getting one of those as the replacement fluid.

I actually emailed AP - used to have one of their big brake kits on a previous car - but apparently they don't have anything for the C7 RS6. Don't really want to be a test mule.

Photos of the discs below. The cracking looks pretty standard - certainly nothing major. On the rears the wear indicators are starting to get coloured in. But overall it's pretty hard to tell if they really need changing, or if Audi don't know what they're doing. When I first took it in they said no one at the dealership knew anything about the ceramics.