Camshaft Timing
Re: Camshaft Timing
So where did the timing error come from?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Camshaft Timing
That's a good was question.
I just reset everything, the tension first (it was in spec, but I reset it anyway) and then retimed it all.
Crank pin and cam lock fitted perfectly before and again now.
However, on the before pic you can see the the ex cams were exactly centred on the cam cap. Now they are very very slightly advan ed compared to the cap marks.
Only thing I did differently was once the tension was set up, I cranked the motor a few times on the starter to bed it all in before finally setting the timing. I also eyeballed the bank 2 ex cam vs the cap - so I knew it was a bit more advanced this time.
(Final setting ex bank 2 pic attached)
Anyway, I can only conclude it was stacking up tolerances on the belt Vs the pulleys and the wiggle room on the bar Vs the odd washers.
I just reset everything, the tension first (it was in spec, but I reset it anyway) and then retimed it all.
Crank pin and cam lock fitted perfectly before and again now.
However, on the before pic you can see the the ex cams were exactly centred on the cam cap. Now they are very very slightly advan ed compared to the cap marks.
Only thing I did differently was once the tension was set up, I cranked the motor a few times on the starter to bed it all in before finally setting the timing. I also eyeballed the bank 2 ex cam vs the cap - so I knew it was a bit more advanced this time.
(Final setting ex bank 2 pic attached)
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
‘Tis a weird one. When you hand cranked the engine the first time, did you go the same direction as the starter?
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."
Re: Camshaft Timing
Yeah, of course. Carefully and repeatedly. If I overshot by even a snifter to TDC, I just wound it over again.
Also checked the hall sensor end of things, that was fine too, no changes.
I didn't measure the cam dia exactly, but on the cam marks, a 5 degree (crank) difference is about 1mm offset on the marks - which are themselves about 4mm wide.
I defo hadn't miscounted the links - in fact, I think 1 link would be about 35 crank degrees - massive.
Can also confirm that rotating the cams clockwise (ie engine direction) advances them.
Also checked the hall sensor end of things, that was fine too, no changes.
I didn't measure the cam dia exactly, but on the cam marks, a 5 degree (crank) difference is about 1mm offset on the marks - which are themselves about 4mm wide.
I defo hadn't miscounted the links - in fact, I think 1 link would be about 35 crank degrees - massive.
Can also confirm that rotating the cams clockwise (ie engine direction) advances them.
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
Quick question, are we aiming to have the arrow on the cam cap pointing to the middle of the notch on the cam shaft on all 4 cams?
Re: Camshaft Timing
Virtually. It’s difficult to eyeball it absolutely spot on since it moves a little depending on the position if your noggin. So as close as possible, yes, with just a hairs width making all the difference between spot on and not quite.
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
Been ordering all the bolts needed to do the cam belt. The M8x52mm bolts that go in the two small idlers are no longer available from Audi and no replacement will be made. Looks like no one has any left. I have purchased M8x50mm high tensile bolts. I will take a bit off the head to make the sharft 52mm. Hope things like the cam bolts and washers don't go as obsolete.
Re: Camshaft Timing
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163867924746
Is this it? If so, pack of 10....
N10706601 - Just looking at the cross references too - its used in loads of stuff up to last year - and still shows as available on ifinterface (which is usually pretty much real time).
Are you sure they didn't just forget to check the supercession chain on the part number?
Is this it? If so, pack of 10....
N10706601 - Just looking at the cross references too - its used in loads of stuff up to last year - and still shows as available on ifinterface (which is usually pretty much real time).
Are you sure they didn't just forget to check the supercession chain on the part number?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
This was the part I ordered,
10135503 Socket head bolt; M8X52 for small relay roller.
Did I get the part number wrong?
10135503 Socket head bolt; M8X52 for small relay roller.
Did I get the part number wrong?
Re: Camshaft Timing
Potentially - let's check. I think you mean part no. 5 on the diagram?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
However I think the roller and bolt might be included in the cambelt service kit 077198119A - do check.
If helpful, for the service I was discussing at the beginning of this thread, here's all the parts I ordered, including the service kit, waterpump, crank oil seal and so forth:
If helpful, for the service I was discussing at the beginning of this thread, here's all the parts I ordered, including the service kit, waterpump, crank oil seal and so forth:
- Kit.png (14.59 KiB) Viewed 2600 times
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
The only thing missing from that would be if you wanted to do the timing chains, cam adjusters, or cam adjuster shoes as well - in which case you obvs need a few more bits.
And don't bother with the cam seals on my list unless you are doing the cam adjusters or chains too - I didn't find it feasible to replace the cam seals without lifting the cams.
Crank seal is worth doing though.
Finally, I don't recommend buying the belt 077903137Q from Audi. It's way too expensive - Audi wanted £98 inc vat for it, whereas autodoc offer the same dayco belt for £23.42 inc.
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/dayco/7201999
And don't bother with the cam seals on my list unless you are doing the cam adjusters or chains too - I didn't find it feasible to replace the cam seals without lifting the cams.
Crank seal is worth doing though.
Finally, I don't recommend buying the belt 077903137Q from Audi. It's way too expensive - Audi wanted £98 inc vat for it, whereas autodoc offer the same dayco belt for £23.42 inc.
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/dayco/7201999
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"
Re: Camshaft Timing
Had downloaded this list some time ago. I will cross check the rest against your list to make sure I have ordered correctly.
The full parts listing for all items I replaced - full timing belt kit, all tensioners, pulleys, bolts, seals etc:
077903137Q Accessory drive belt Qty. 1
077109479D Tensioner dampener Qty. 1
077109485F Tensioner pulley Qty. 1
078109119J Timing belt Qty. 1
077109244E Timing belt roller Qty. 1
077109244C Timing belt roller Qty. 2
077121113D Thermostat Qty. 1
077121004P Water pump Qty. 1
078105229D Crankshaft / vibration damper bolt (big bolt!) Qty. 1
N 10135503 Socket head bolt; M8X52 for small relay rollers Qty. 2
N 10194702 Socket head bolt with; hexagon socket head; M10X58 for big relay roller Qty. 1
N 10205604 Hexagon head bolt (combi); M6X32 for tensioner Qty. 3
N 90637102 Hexagon bolt; M10X1X145X45 for camshaft pulleys Qty. 2
026103085D Shaft oil seal for camshafts Qty. 2
077115147A Shaft oil seal for crankshaft (front) Qty. 1
N 90827702 Oval hexagon socket head bolt; M6X25 for water pump and t-stat housing Qty. 11
078109149 Washer for thrust bearing - cam pulley timing washers Qty. 2
G013A8JM1 G13 coolant 1.5ltrs 50/50 mix with distilled water Qty. 2
The full parts listing for all items I replaced - full timing belt kit, all tensioners, pulleys, bolts, seals etc:
077903137Q Accessory drive belt Qty. 1
077109479D Tensioner dampener Qty. 1
077109485F Tensioner pulley Qty. 1
078109119J Timing belt Qty. 1
077109244E Timing belt roller Qty. 1
077109244C Timing belt roller Qty. 2
077121113D Thermostat Qty. 1
077121004P Water pump Qty. 1
078105229D Crankshaft / vibration damper bolt (big bolt!) Qty. 1
N 10135503 Socket head bolt; M8X52 for small relay rollers Qty. 2
N 10194702 Socket head bolt with; hexagon socket head; M10X58 for big relay roller Qty. 1
N 10205604 Hexagon head bolt (combi); M6X32 for tensioner Qty. 3
N 90637102 Hexagon bolt; M10X1X145X45 for camshaft pulleys Qty. 2
026103085D Shaft oil seal for camshafts Qty. 2
077115147A Shaft oil seal for crankshaft (front) Qty. 1
N 90827702 Oval hexagon socket head bolt; M6X25 for water pump and t-stat housing Qty. 11
078109149 Washer for thrust bearing - cam pulley timing washers Qty. 2
G013A8JM1 G13 coolant 1.5ltrs 50/50 mix with distilled water Qty. 2
Re: Camshaft Timing
I have reset the cam belt tension 3 times. Gap is sitting at 5.49mm. the cam bar goes on with a bit of a push. It doesn't fall on. Should I reset the cam wheels and aim for it to fall on?
Re: Camshaft Timing
I just reset the cam wheels and the bar goes on easy.
The tensioner goes up and down while I am winding it over. I would think this is normal until oil pressure is up,
or am I missing something?
The tensioner goes up and down while I am winding it over. I would think this is normal until oil pressure is up,
or am I missing something?