is RS4 available in Germany yet?

[DuncS3]

I was watching DTM on Motors TV last night and the safety car could only of been a grey coloured new RS4 saloon - B7 shape, big rolled arches etc...

Dunc

[wazza]

like this?

[Simon_M]

Fek, that looks superb - those rear wheelarches are rediculous

Makes colour choices even harder...........

[DuncS3]

Thats the one! now thats a nice looking car in anyones money...

Dunc

[Kaine]

dont those panel gaps look big to you? especially on the bonnet - I guess the production cars will be better

[johneroberts]

im not convinced ........still
bmw for audi lovers in the states imo
jr

[kujo]

An Audi, for Audi enthusiasts in the States !!!! oh and the rest of the planet too .....

[quattroturbo]

The panel gaps on the bonnet of the B7 S4 and A4 are too large, so expect the RS4 to be the same. One can't expect Audis to be as well built today as they were in the 80's and 90's under their new profit led management.

Sorry I still can't bring myself to accept the looks of the new RS4. It's good but not special.

[Nordschleife]

An Audi, for Audi enthusiasts in the States !!!! oh and the rest of the planet too .....

Not so, the US market is unique in its requirements. The rest of the world prefers cars to be rather different in character.

Here in Germany we drive cars at up to 200mph, we have good quality roads, we don't have bums the size of Pluto (yet). We are not driven by a culture which sticks idiot labels on everything, and sues at the drop of a hat. Warranties are of reasonable duration, we pay for our cars to be serviced, the driving tests are extremely rigorous and it shows in the way most drivers behave.

Cars which are optimised for US conditions are compromised for European conditions. Ask BMW drivers about this, in Europe we get launch control with the SMG gearbox. We know that the US market does not like European cars the way we like them here, for the US they are compromised in European eyes.

Funnily enough US enthusiasts often spend large amounts of money trying to maske their US spec cars mre like European spec cars.

Introducing the RS4 to the US market means it is built down to a price instead of up to a performance/quality level. Sadly the US price is not worth much in a world where the dollar is so weak. If you remove the effect of taxes when comparing the price of cars in Europe and the US, you will see that the profit contribution from the sale of RS4s is barely worth the candle, that the RS4 was specified with this market condition in mind has compromised the new RS4 in its details and is a very large reason why existing RS4 owners are not madly excited at the prospect of a new one.

R+C

[kujo]

How is that car watered down because of US enthusiasts ?

What does this conversation have to do with Idiots, bums and sue happy folk ?

I fully agree about the driving behavior and wished we had tougher driving tests and such.

The US will only get 1/6th of the production numbers for this car.

They(audi) don't think this is an S or A4 !! It's an RS.

These will only be bought by driving enthusiasts, not Joe Blow.

Do you really think Audi AG dumbs down an entire 'specialty' car just for a portion of it's production ?

So, the RS6 was dumbed down ????
They sold 900 of em in the States.... Guess that was a hunk of junk too ?

This 'USA' excuse for not liking stuff about the car is a joke.

Don't know why I bother with this.....

Blame Audi if you don't like the car.

Not the Sue Happy Idiots with bums the size of Pluto ?????

[Nordschleife]

if the product planners envisage selling the car in the US, then it is built with features for the American market and to the price the American market willl pay.

The RS2 and original RS4 were not planned for the US market, they remain desirable.

US bound cars are full of features which are of little interest to most other markets. Small wheels, soft suspension, idiot notices, engine management optimised for lower octane fuel (often high in sulphur), government mandated 'features', like loose gas cap warnings........

The new RS4 has a frankly cheap interior, and no significant new product development specifically for the RS4. The 4.2 litre engine is going brand wide, the suspension is a 'variant' of the RS6 suspension, the different Torsen ratio has been played by Audi for years, and the brakes, well, the guy read the forst page of brake design 101 but forgot to turn it over and look at the second page.

It features a steering wheel that belongs in a Korean car and a starter button. A starter button, by all that is holy what earthly bloody use is that? Do you still need a key, yes, could you start the car with the key, yes(if the designers allowed it)! So some 'product marketing specialist' decides that the focus group in xxxxx that loved the idea of a starter button should be listened too. Get real, its complete redundent crap. The car has been pimped up. Little practical has been done to make it a decent drivers' car, sorry taking weight out of the rear is no help, its the front that is too heavy.

By selling a significant proportion of the new RS4s on the US market, at a 'cheap' price, the designers and product planners know that they have to constrain the amount of investment they can make in developing the new model, because the returns are so small on a sigtnificant number of cars which also require a large expenditure on development for its conditions, so not only is there less money to spend, there is more work to be done.

So back to my original point, US enthusiasts, who work assiduously to "Europeanise" their cars when they take get them, should hope fervently that the interesting cars are not made for the US market and that they can bring them in through the gray market. Cars developed for the US market are NOT cars for the Rest Of the World, they are cars for US customers; US enthusiasts appear to be as frustrated by these cars as everybody else as they spend large lumps of money making them less 'American' and more 'European'. I'm particularly thinking about suspension.

If you think about this, as an enthusiast you will probably find yourself agreeing with what I have said. It is not an attack on motherhood and applepie.

R+C

[kujo]

Funny, the US market cars will NOT have the starter button !!!!!!!

I do agree, that US enthusiasts mod the cars to make them more a 'drivers' car.
But this is an RS model, not an A or S.

Are you telling me the RS6 we compromised because they were going to seel 900 of the 8900 made ?

Sure, only Europe go the RS6+, but the RS6 was 'junked' by Audi selling it in the states ?

You're talking about smaller wheels ?
19"s are standard on the RS4 in the US ?

What else SHOULD Audi have done to make this more of a drivers car ?
Enlighten me ? Seriously !!!

Even at the price range it's at in most of Europe, drivers over there are saying it's priced too high.
So, what SHOULD Audi AG have done to desitinguish this car ?

The High Reving NA motors will go Full Product Line Wide.
Not just the RS4, but S6, RS6 and RS8/S8, etc....

Tell me what Audi should have done to make this car acceptable to European drivers and kept the price tag at where it's at ?

Thanks,

Kurt

[Nordschleife]

To seriously make this an interesting car they could have fitted lightweight body panels, like the M3CSL, a car that was NOT compromised by the US market requirements, so carbon fibre roof and body panels, lightweight glass, sports oriented suspension possibly with Ohlins 'lifts', engine optimised for 98RON with more aggressive engine management, cam profiles and exhaust systems, better brakes and brake ventilation, better quality materials inside, competition rear view mirrors, lightweight doors.

What hasn't been done to the RS4 is more interesting than what has been done. And, yes, the RS6 was compromised by being developed with the US in mind. So we had inadequate brakes, suspension that is too firm at low speeds and too soft at high speeds, a gearbox that operates beyond its original design specifications and was in need of considerable reprogramming, because of the need to spend development time and money on US versions as well as ROW versions, in fact Audi ran out of money on the project and they never actually got round to adding the extra oil coolers that were planned. Which is one reason they added them to the RS6 Plus. The cars are compromised profoundly by the need to slip them through the US testing regime, to avoid having to retest the car they have to persuade the Feds that it is essentially an S4 variant.

I'm sure you will have a lovely time with your car, but if it doesn't feel quite as special as you hoped, you have at least been informed of some of the reasons why.

R+C

[Simon_M]

Jees, you are one miserable git!!

so carbon fibre roof and body panels, lightweight glass, sports oriented suspension possibly with Ohlins 'lifts', engine optimised for 98RON with more aggressive engine management, cam profiles and exhaust systems, better brakes and brake ventilation, better quality materials inside, competition rear view mirrors, lightweight doors.

Don't recall seeing much of that list on the previous RS4 or the RS2.

I am surprised our American friends on this board tolerate your frankly borderline racist comments.........

[yetis]

We get used to the anti American rant. This one has been poorly cloaked in RS4 car talk, but it's not tough to see the real issue. Why he doesn't just say "George Bush sucks", and move on, is beyond me.