My LOBA/Pagid Upgraded Front Brakes - One year on

[iluvmercs]

Afternoon everyone.

I thought I would give a total appraisal to sum up my upgraded front brakes which I had fitted to my B7 RS4 back in June last year.
Being completely honest, I am including the highs and the lows for the most complete a picture I can offer.

After some research, I had decided to go for LOBA Motorsport front Discs with a groove disc design.
Although the diameter approximately 3mm smaller than the OEM disc, they were designed to offer better cooling. They are also lighter than OEM discs, which promised better handling thanks to less unsprung weight.
Emails to LOBA Motorsport were swiftly answered, so high praise there

I purchased the discs, along with some Pagid RS4-2 pads from Unit 20. A swift, easy process and delivered quickly.
The pad option is something I was recommended by an Audi R8 driver a while back, and I have used them before, being very impressed.

Discs and pads came to ~£1705 inc. VAT.
They were then fitted by my local Audi main dealer.

I have kept both brake fluid and brake lines stock.

I then had a lovely long drive purely to bed in the brakes. At this point I obviously couldn't appreciate any upgrade in braking performance, but what I could notice was the improved steering. I certainly felt lighter and consequently more direct.
After a good many miles of bedding, I hit a major snag - vibration through the wheel.
I had a wobble not only under braking, but also acceleration. Needless to say I was initially disappointed, thinking the brakes could be the cause.

I turned to this learned forum and following very helpful and appreciated advice from members including both LOBA and Unit20, it was suggested wheel hubs could be to blame.
I took the car to Audi and they checked the run out coming to the diagnosis it was indeed one front hub. With the other front hub close to tolerant limits, I asked Audi to replace both as I knew I was about to head to the Nürburgring.
Hubs replaced, all was well - the brakes weren't to blame. Hurrah!

THEN......A rather odd thing happened.
The car was fine from Norfolk to France, then just outside Calais, the braking AND acceleration wobble returned.
I carried on to Nürburg, wobble still evident.
The following day, I head out on track and I am still mystified by what happened out there - the wobble disappeared on the sighting laps!

However, after my first two fast laps, I pulled into the pits to find my pads smoking.
I was a little disappointed by the over heating. I had driven this track plenty before on the standard brakes and with the OEM disc/Pagid pad combo with no issue after just two laps.
Anyway, after cooling, I continued my double track day to discover something wonderful.......
Throughout both days, the brakes just got better and better. I figured it could be a final bit of bedding in as the brake performance was wonderful!
I could manage 3 to 4 laps and the discs and pads were terrific! I was tiring before they were giving out
Pad wear was also favourable, considering the abuse over two track days and a journey to Switzerland.
The acceleration wobble had gone, but after a couple of days, a wobble became again evident, only this time just under braking.

Back to the UK, the car returned to daily use, the braking wobble still evident. I tested braking in various circumstances, discovering the harder the brakes were used, the wobble began to smooth out. Once cooled, the wobble worsened again. The discs themselves also looked very dirty.
Asking around, pad deposits were the likely cause. It became evident this is a known issue when these cars are used "properly"
I attempted to clean the discs using a brake cleaner and used glass paper to smooth out the pads, but this had little and limited effect.
Suggestions lead me to believe disc skimming should cure the wobble, but having been advised it is something you may only be able to do once or twice, I opted to wait until a pad change was necessary as I had noticed braking performance wasn't affected in the slightest.

Daily duties were fine and a track day in Spa finished off my pads, where again the wobble decreased the harder the brakes worked.
At Spa, I encountered RS246 members, further asking about the brake wobble and again I was told disc skimming should cure it.
Once back home, I found a garage who offered a skimming service. Discs skimmed, new Pagid RS4-2 pads fitted, some bedding in completed and FINALLY the wobble had gone. I was a happy bunny! This was about £120ish plus the cost of the pads.

Over winter and spring, the car has been in daily use with the odd spirited drive. During this time, braking wobble has returned. Speaking with owners and now my own experience, I don't think I will be able to avoid this totally, which is certainly a shame. My OEM discs suffered the same, so it isn't the LOBA items.

Finally, yesterday I went to Snetterton and this was again a tremendous test for the brakes - fast laps, hard braking.
Weirdly, the brakes smoked after the first few laps. However, again during the day they just became better and better. They never faded despite how many laps I did.
I drove the old Snetterton circuit back in 2009, where the OEM discs and pads could manage perhaps 10-15 minutes before the pedal went spongy. I could take 20 minutes on this new, longer Snetterton 300 circuit before I required a break, but this LOBA/Pagid set up could have been out still longer! The wobble also seemed to smooth out again.

In conclusion, I think I had bad luck and timing when the brakes were initially fitted.
Since France almost a year ago, I've had no acceleration wobble and braking wobble only returned after some exuberant driving.
I still can't explain why the acceleration wobble disappeared on its own, but it has gone and that is all which matters.
I will admit to being disappointed by the brake wobble, but it appears this is something common to the car, not as a result of my brake upgrade.

Would I recommend this brake set up? Simply, Yes.
If you intend on fast road/occasional track driving you can't go much wrong with this set up.
Steering feel is definitely improved, brake feel is also slightly improved. The initial bite is superb and even when hot, you can have supreme confidence that it will stop you again and again, because it will.
This set up has worked very well with the OEM fluid and lines, too.

What next for me? For experimentation, I would be tempted to try a 380mm disc upgrade next, but I am certain that won't be for a long while yet. I do want to experiment with different pads to see if a compound change will positively effect the build up and therefore the wobble.

That being said, I whole heartedly recommend the LOBA discs and Pagid RS4-2 Pads. While they cost about half as much again over an Audi main dealer supplied OEM setup - I know it's a lot of money - I wouldn't consider that a ridiculous premium for such a great upgraded setup.
I can also recommend the services offered by both LOBA Motorsport and Unit20. Great companies with excellent service making it a pleasurable experience - thanks guys
I cannot deny the brakes' consistently immense stopping power under heavy load when compared to the OEM setup, which itself is very good.
Anything I experiment with has a high bar to exceed.

I know this has been a long post, but hopefully it has been an informative one for anyone considering a brake upgrade for their B7 RS4.

Darren

[dubbed_up_daz]

Great write up, I also am running upgraded discs and pads and suffer from a similar deceleration shudder/wobble although similarly the brakes are excellent and get better when used hard. When I get the car back im going to do some experimenting with different pads to try and cure it as I think they are the cause.

[coffey555]

Avoid the handbrake and using the brakes to keep the car stopped when they are hot might help with the brake wobble if you are not doing so already.

Luckily I have never had a problem with the standard setup but then maybe I don't use them hard enough.

[Surrey Sam]

Great write up.

Have you checked the stainless plates that the pads slide along. Basically corrosion can happen between the aluminium and stainless which pushes the plates up, this pinches the pad and stops it from sliding. The disc face can then overheat and a heavy brake application will warp the disc.

[iluvmercs]

Thanks for the replies

Avoid the handbrake and using the brakes to keep the car stopped when they are hot might help with the brake wobble if you are not doing so already.

Luckily I have never had a problem with the standard setup but then maybe I don't use them hard enough.

When I drive hard, I always ensure not to apply the handbrake, nor hold the car with the brakes applied, for that very reason
The judder/wobble only became prevalent when I started track days and harder driving

Great write up.

Have you checked the stainless plates that the pads slide along. Basically corrosion can happen between the aluminium and stainless which pushes the plates up, this pinches the pad and stops it from sliding. The disc face can then overheat and a heavy brake application will warp the disc.

I haven't considered the stainless plates, but will have them checked when it goes in for a service next month.
The discs definitely aren't warped though.

Darren

[leadfoot]

Well done Darrren… I too had planned on writing up a piece, but the year mark passed 6 months ago.

I am running the same OEM fluid, lines…. But I choose the OEM RS6 front and rear pads, with the intention to run Ferodo 2500 on the track… but 2 kids in the last 2 years put that on hold.

The decision for me was a little more costly, as I live in Toronto, Canada… and the shipping would add a fair bit onto the transaction... BTW, their packing was also done perfectly!

My dealings with Loba (Simon) were amazing… we sent dozens of emails back and forth and a few phone calls… understanding the parts needed when discs are changed in the future… pad recommendations, and finally installation (urgent call to determine the left and right disc, unlike OEM that are not different).

Once fitted and bedded in…. I made my first 120km -0 hard braking test… only to stop about halfway through… and there was all sorts of noise coming from within the car… No not the brakes… but every coin, pen, flashlight etc… that was hidden and stuck under the seats and unsecured things in the truck all let loose from the stop. I was dumbfounded at the difference over OEM… although my old pads were well worn, glazed and grooved… and I know a new OEM setup may have been the same.

I have only managed one track day since having the brakes installed… and they were flawless. I had previously had problems wide OEM fade at a track (Calabogie) on their very long straight (~225kmph) that after some laps required a double pedal push, that only happened at the end of the main straight. I was planning on upgrading to Castrol SRF fluid… but after speaking to my Audi Mechanic that has had ~8yrs of track experience, said it wasn’t the fluid… as the pedal would have remained bad for the rest of the track… and felt it was my tentative braking (braking too slowly for a long period into the corner) that caused the pads to heat up and give up. I haven’t been able to test this out… but knowing how I brake… it made the most sense.

The main reason I decided to go with the Loba setup… since it was about 50% more than OEM (with my shipping), was that I was planning to keep my car for a long time… and that subsequent disc changes would be much cheaper, as only the disc and pins (bolts) are replaced, not the whole hat. If I wasn’t planning to keep the car for another 1 disc replacement, I would have stayed with OEM.

I had very slight wobble for a long time before installing the Loba… and it continued after Loba install… But it was slight yet consistent, although felt worse the first few minutes of driving. I looked at all of the possibilities… warped discs, pad buildup, hubs, alignment, tires (belts)… and nothing helped… until… I decided to have my rims refinished and straightened. This required the wheels be put onto a machine that ensured the wheels were round, and during this process its damages the finish on the inside of the wheel, so you have to have the wheels refinished after this process. But WOW… what a difference… I was amazed that the little nagging wobble was gone. I guess years of potholes could not be totally improved with wheel balancing.

In conclusion… I would rate my dealing with Loba as a 10/10 (I am VERY VERY picky too!). The customer service was above and beyond… and their product did everything that was promised… and overseas delivery was very timely. I wish all of my purchases were like this.