Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

4.2 V8 40v biturbo - 450 bhp
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Classik
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:48 pm

Time has come to change the tensioners with those Vaico's, thank you all for the contributions

Quick question though: in the shopping list provided by the OP, could you please help to identify the parts in red :

- 2x Rocker cover gaskets (£38 each)
- 2x Cambelt bolts plus funny shaped locating washers (£5 each)
- 2x Cambelt black end cap seals (£5 each)
- 4x Cambelt orange/brown seals (£5 each)
- 2x Moon gaskets (included in rocker cover gasket set or as part of tensioner gaskets)
- 2x Chain tensioner gaskets (£7 each)
(...)

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Thank you!
Last edited by Classik on Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:22 pm

Really no one could help with the above ^^ ?
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Shoppinit » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:34 pm

Suspect the funny shape washer is number 8 in the second drawing.
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Shoppinit » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:38 pm

Suspect the other items are 3, 4 and 10.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:48 pm

Many thanks Shopp! Sounds good for number 8 indeed.

But if 3&4 are the Cambelt orange/brown seals, what are the 2x Cambelt black end cap seals (I would have through these are parts 3&4)?
Also number 10 is definitely the half moon gasket (OP talks about moon gasket, should be the same or?), so I still don't know what are those 2x Chain tensioner gaskets... Confused :?
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Shoppinit » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:56 pm

Why not just go through the elsawin procedure and determine for yourself what is needed. That’s what I do. If you listen to numpties like me on forums like this you’re asking for trouble. ;)
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:02 pm

ifinterface will answer all your questions.
The other end of the cambelt seals are plugs for the end the cambelt doesn't stick out of.
And this is the tensioner gasket & half moon jobbie : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401981239873


Classik wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:48 pm
Many thanks Shopp! Sounds good for number 8 indeed.

But if 3&4 are the Cambelt orange/brown seals, what are the 2x Cambelt black end cap seals (I would have through these are parts 3&4)?
Also number 10 is definitely the half moon gasket (OP talks about moon gasket, should be the same or?), so I still don't know what are those 2x Chain tensioner gaskets... Confused :?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm

Shoppinit wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:56 pm
Why not just go through the elsawin procedure and determine for yourself what is needed. That’s what I do. If you listen to numpties like me on forums like this you’re asking for trouble. ;)
Haha, yeah sure ;) Well I must be dumb or something, but never succeeded to have a working Elsawin install, even on a VM... but I'm ready to bet the standard procedure would start with an engine out.. :lol:
Mɐʇʇ wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:02 pm
ifinterface will answer all your questions.
The other end of the cambelt seals are plugs for the end the cambelt doesn't stick out of.
And this is the tensioner gasket & half moon jobbie : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401981239873
Many thanks Matt! Are those strangely shaped gaskets common to so many cars?
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Shoppinit » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:08 pm

You can have a copy of my VM. Should just work.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:07 pm

Yes. The timing unit itself is not common across the range - ours is however common go all the 40V V8s I think. But the gasket & seal are pretty standard.
Classik wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm
Many thanks Matt! Are those strangely shaped gaskets common to so many cars?
"not a professional engineer, mechanic and mechanist"

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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:21 pm

Mɐʇʇ wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:07 pm
Yes. The timing unit itself is not common across the range - ours is however common go all the 40V V8s I think. But the gasket & seal are pretty standard.
Classik wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm
Many thanks Matt! Are those strangely shaped gaskets common to so many cars?
Thank you Matt, sounds like good news. So even if the bcy is not in the advertised compatibility list, I can go ahead with this item here : https://www.mecatechnic.com/fr-FR/joint ... Facet=Audi ?

FWIW the vendor says it's not ok for the rs6 c5 but it looks very similar to the one on your link (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401981239873).
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Mɐʇʇ » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:42 pm

Actually, you make a good point, Technically, I may have misread the part number.
The part number you want is 077198217, but the one I linked to is 058198217.

But, of the ones I'm linking to, they're all elring part number 863.590 - which if you look here, cross references to both the audi part numbers listed above.

But it is a cheap and available from Audi, should come in at about £10.
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Classik » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:03 pm

Thanks for the follow up, appreciated. So in essence, those are the same parts with different references. Meaning I should be alright with the French link above.
Mɐʇʇ wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:42 pm
But it is a cheap and available from Audi, should come in at about £10.
Good point, sometimes we tend to forget the most simple solution.. :D
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by carrerasc » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:26 pm

Hey Everyone, long time lurker, first time poster. I have always found this forum to be a great resource in my nearly 13yr relationship with my RS6. I am in the middle, or rather WAS in the middle of changing the timing belt and valve cover gaskets. Massive oil leaks dripping onto the exhaust manifold, so I decided to do the valve cover gaskets while I was in there. Everything went pretty well, this is my second timing belt job. I must say, access to the right/starboard/bank1 valve cover was an absolute nightmare. I only managed to break off the little vacuum nipple to the SAI valve before loosening it from the head. I think this is more of an issue than the water pipe, IMHO. I think I'm OK there though, as I was still able to snug up the vacuum line on what was left. I put it all back together and performed the timing procedure (all new belts, tensioners, and pulleys) with proper tools (cam lock bar and crank pin) to spec and rotated by hand a few times. I had to do this a couple times to get it right. When I was able to start the car and check for fault codes and measuring block 93, I got one fault telling me the cam position sensor (G40) reading was "implausible" and block 93 only showed data for bank 2 (which was -7KW). I decided to tear down the front end again "check" the sensor. I checked the harness and it seemed fine. I ended up replacing that sensor, because why not. I put things back together enough to run the motor. That fixed the fault code for G40 and I was able to get proper readings from block 93. Now, here is where we get to the good stuff. The readings I get from block 93 are as follows: Bank 1 = -18KW and Bank 2 = -8KW. I am sorry, but I can't tell you what the readings were before I started. I am racking my brain as to where to begin with this. The Bentley says the tolerance is +/-6. After I took the readings, I checked the belt again for any misalignment. Everything checked out, crank at TDC and cam lock bar went on easily enough. Even the cam belt damper was in spec. However, I will definitely be re-tensioning the belt for my own sanity. But my big concern is the difference between the two banks on bock 93. I visually checked the cam chain tensioner pads while I had the covers off and they seemed fine from what I could tell, no breaks or major wear. I am at 120K miles, but the thought of removing the cams made me nauseous. I have attached a screenshot of the VCDS data log for blocks 91, 92, & 93. Any incite you all can provide is greatly appreciated.
Screenshot 2021-02-16 115320.png
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Re: Cam chain tensioners/pads removal and replacement guide

Post by Shoppinit » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:06 pm

Your timing is quite a way out. It's hard to reconcile what you are saying about the tools going on the cams OK with the kind of figures you are seeing.

Where did the cam locking tools come from? Are they good? Did you replace the rectangular washers on the end of the cams with new ones? Did you lock the crank or just put the engine to TDC? There's loads of play on the pulley and you could easily be a few degrees off if you're relying on the visual markings.

Read the cambelt replacement DIYs and see if there are any steps that you omitted or if there are any other differences.

Also, FON.
Daytona RS6 C5 Avant. Viper'd, Billies, Waggers, MTM box brain, C6 stoppers, xcarlink, R8 coolant cap (woohoo)
///M3 E46 | XC90 (V8, natch) | Passat GTE | RR Classic V8 flapper
"The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at and repair."

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