New RS4 - is it 414BHP or not!

[simple1]

At Audi Sportscar day at Silverstne, instructors recommended that to get an Rs4 away quickly you have to drop clutchh slightly to get the car rolling then give it dixie, have to say the times I tried a fast getaway all I got was fried clutch and a guilty feeling.... But then it was Audi Uk's car not mine....

[ChrisRS4]

With four wheel drive cars I prefer to slip the clutch to about 15mph rather than dropping it. Its less violent on the transmission and helsp to stop the car from boggin down.

[rs4v8]

Would that not wear out the clutch pretty quickly? The reason I ask is that sometimes I feel I may be slipping mine too much. I'm wondering if it'd be better to engage it ASAP and let the transmission do the rest.

[audijohn]

I have dropped the clutch a couple of times and almost fried it, I tend to just get it fully engaged and then boot it. Lots of lost time on manual boxs, paddle shift is quicker.

[alex_123_fra]

As a comparison,on Dragtimes.net

The Average 1/4 mle speed for a RS4 is 105 mph

The average 1/4mile speed for a std tt is 118.5 mph.

I'd say that was a big difference.

Fair enough & i do not think & have never said the B7 RS4 is quicker than a 996TT, but it won't get scared by one & i'd have a play all day long.

On a drag strip in perfect conditions, i can't disagree with the times Dragtimes state, but in a head to head (more than once), my findings are factual, as are experiences at The Ring etc. when i've encountered such vehicles. Either that or i'm just better at launching, although i was purely pitting the cars & not the drivers.

Hmm, drag racing and quarter mile times do not give a real-life performance comparison between a 996 TT and an RS4 in my opinion. In real world acceleration the difference between the 2 cars up to 130 mph will be miniscule. The porsche will always look better off the mark because it is much lighter and has better rear traction. Once the RS4 gets going, this negates its comparatively bigger weight.

Just for everyone's interest, in the 30-130 mph and Vmax days I've been to at Bruntingthorpe, times were as follows (approximate from memory but just to give you an idea):

30-130 mph time:

996 TT without X50 pack - 15s
996 TT with x50 pack - 13.44s
RS4 B7 saloon - 15.5s
Ferrari 360 (manual) - 16.1s
996 GT3 - 15.7s

So unless you're going up against a 996 TT with an x50 pack, the real world difference (from a rolling start) between the 2 cars is not great. It is even less so against a 996 GT3, except when you hit the twisties, where I would expect it to edge away from an RS4 if driven properly.

[rs4v8]

I have dropped the clutch a couple of times and almost fried it, I tend to just get it fully engaged and then boot it. Lots of lost time on manual boxs, paddle shift is quicker.

Yeah, but that's just not cricket 'ol chap!! My old m3 had the SMG 'box and when set on full attack mode and the ESP off, it was really pretty swift off the line (but was a total pain in the arse everywhere else)... wouldn't thank you for another one...

IMHO I think it's better to engage (warp drive!) first as the clutch does seem to slip pretty easily and definatley does not seem to like the power on when not fully connected..

[audijohn]

I have dropped the clutch a couple of times and almost fried it, I tend to just get it fully engaged and then boot it. Lots of lost time on manual boxs, paddle shift is quicker.

Yeah, but that's just not cricket 'ol chap!! My old m3 had the SMG 'box and when set on full attack mode and the ESP off, it was really pretty swift off the line (but was a total pain in the arse everywhere else)... wouldn't thank you for another one...

IMHO I think it's better to engage (warp drive!) first as the clutch does seem to slip pretty easily and definatley does not seem to like the power on when not fully connected..

Yes I agree on the "Fully engage", I think as other the clutch is the week link, but if it were stronger prohaps town driving would be a pain.

[W8PMC]

As an aside, the Launch Mode on my E60 M5 was almost Nuclear & defo not for the faint hearted.

Have all nanny gadgets switched off (ESP etc.) select SMG 6 (most aggressive setting), select P500S power, then push the SMG stub forwards, bury the loud pedal (revs rise to about 4K), then when ready & finished giggling like a girl, let go of the SMG stub & encounter Armagedon. It's out of this world & as the driver, you're convinced all things mechanical have just dropped of the car as it's that brutal.

So brutal in fact, E60 M5's in the US have the LC crippled back to 1500 RPM as they can't be trusted with a full onslaught. It's out fo this would fun, but even BMW reckon the SMG Hydraulic Clutch could only manage about 12 of these before the clutch would let go & as such the ECU captures the number of full on LC launches the car does. The car also disables the ability to perform these back to back, as a time limit of around 12mins is needed before you can perform another one.

[rs4v8]

I believe BMW actually offered a very small number of M5's in manual in the US and it was shockingly bad because it didn't have the SMG and just could not put the power down....

I can totally appreciate the technical prowess of the BM SMG system, it's just not to my liking for everyday use. As you say, with the electronics switched off, the SMG works really well on launch, my m3 felt rapid off the line especially if the hidden gearbox speed setting is uncovered... It also compensated for my hamfisted efforts of getting away quickly!!

[/b]

[RussianM3_dude]

The M5 worked fine, it's just that you couldn't fully disingage traction control. An issue which is now solved.

[Casper]

As a comparison,on Dragtimes.net

The Average 1/4 mle speed for a RS4 is 105 mph

The average 1/4mile speed for a std tt is 118.5 mph.

I'd say that was a big difference.

Et for rs4 inthis test is 111,5mph

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80742

Scroll down where the acceleration figures are. Anything around 110mph is a good time for such a heavy car.

[rs4v8]

The M5 worked fine, it's just that you couldn't fully disingage traction control. An issue which is now solved.

Hmm, the way I understood it was that the power was too great and resulted in extremely bad axle shunt at the back, literally causing the wheels to come off the ground alternately and making the car virtually uncontrollable under full gas.... I also seem to remember that the BM engineers did not want to produce the car as they knew it wouldn't work, except as with most cars now, the marketing dudes overruled them....

A quick look at BMW UK seems to show the manual box isn't available here.

You may be right that they've fixed it though as it is available as a six speed true manual on BMW US. The yanks however do have some funny ideas about how a car should behave so their opions can be more or less disregarded

However in the small print in the optional extras page BMW (USA) - M5 with optional transmission does not allow complete disengagement of DSC.

The fact that we can't get it in the UK tells me a story though..... They've made a fab car sh*te

[W8PMC]

The M5 worked fine, it's just that you couldn't fully disingage traction control. An issue which is now solved.

Hmm, the way I understood it was that the power was too great and resulted in extremely bad axle shunt at the back, literally causing the wheels to come off the ground alternately and making the car virtually uncontrollable under full gas.... I also seem to remember that the BM engineers did not want to produce the car as they knew it wouldn't work, except as with most cars now, the marketing dudes overruled them....

A quick look at BMW UK seems to show the manual box isn't available here.

You may be right that they've fixed it though as it is available as a six speed true manual on BMW US. The yanks however do have some funny ideas about how a car should behave so their opions can be more or less disregarded

However in the small print in the optional extras page BMW (USA) - M5 with optional transmission does not allow complete disengagement of DSC.

The fact that we can't get it in the UK tells me a story though..... They've made a fab car sh*te

Yep, that's the long & the short of it.

As a previous E60 M5 owner, i read with delight how some daft yanks had demanded a stick shift (they're not good with flappy paddles) & then when BMW delivered, they did not like what was provided & AFAIK, BMW have not altered the DSC as it still can't be fully disengaged although some tuner has found a workaround, but this would almost certainly invalidate warranties.

You've got to laugh really

[rs4v8]

The M5 worked fine, it's just that you couldn't fully disingage traction control. An issue which is now solved.

Hmm, the way I understood it was that the power was too great and resulted in extremely bad axle shunt at the back, literally causing the wheels to come off the ground alternately and making the car virtually uncontrollable under full gas.... I also seem to remember that the BM engineers did not want to produce the car as they knew it wouldn't work, except as with most cars now, the marketing dudes overruled them....

A quick look at BMW UK seems to show the manual box isn't available here.

You may be right that they've fixed it though as it is available as a six speed true manual on BMW US. The yanks however do have some funny ideas about how a car should behave so their opions can be more or less disregarded

However in the small print in the optional extras page BMW (USA) - M5 with optional transmission does not allow complete disengagement of DSC.

The fact that we can't get it in the UK tells me a story though..... They've made a fab car sh*te

Yep, that's the long & the short of it.

As a previous E60 M5 owner, i read with delight how some daft yanks had demanded a stick shift (they're not good with flappy paddles) & then when BMW delivered, they did not like what was provided & AFAIK, BMW have not altered the DSC as it still can't be fully disengaged although some tuner has found a workaround, but this would almost certainly invalidate warranties.

You've got to laugh really

I have been for days!!

[t_urbo]

As a comparison,on Dragtimes.net

The Average 1/4 mle speed for a RS4 is 105 mph

The average 1/4mile speed for a std tt is 118.5 mph.

I'd say that was a big difference.

Et for rs4 inthis test is 111,5mph

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80742

Scroll down where the acceleration figures are. Anything around 110mph is a good time for such a heavy car.

The figures you quote are from a mag test, the figures i quote are an average of dragstrip runs by owners.

I dont doubt the RS4 can achieve this but the original arguement was regarding how well the RS4 will keep up with a 996 tt.