munched engine...ouch! not for the faint of heart

[P_G]

Contamintion in what way though? Metal in it; poor blend? And how does that cause the issue?

[2manytoys]

actually Audi told mal 'oil quality/contamination'

No they didn't, they said wrong oil. But you knew that, I'm sure you were just trying to bait me by misquoting again.

Seriously, go get some friends, I know you get off on fighting with people on the forums, and you've made that your past time, but far out, it's boring as hell to read.

I have more pics and more information but I'm not posting them on this forum or this thread. It's a waste of time.

And please don't follow me on the other one or fill my project thread with crap.

Mal.

[ArthurPE]

isn't this your quote:
Ok, the engine is apart, and it's not good. The (Audi) theory is that the wrong oil was used (not the case) which caused excessive blow-by, which caused excessive carbon build up. The carbon made it's way in the bore, which caused cylinder wall scoring, hence more blow-by, more carbon, more scoring, more of the more!

isn't that oil quality/contamination??
as in wrong oil = quality, and stuff in the cylinder contamination?
I know for a fact that they did not tell you carbon fell into the cylinder and destroyed the engine...

actually Audi told mal 'oil quality/contamination'

No they didn't, they said wrong oil. But you knew that, I'm sure you were just trying to bait me by misquoting again.

Seriously, go get some friends, I know you get off on fighting with people on the forums, and you've made that your past time, but far out, it's boring as hell to read.

I have more pics and more information but I'm not posting them on this forum or this thread. It's a waste of time.

And please don't follow me on the other one or fill my project thread with crap.

Mal.

[2manytoys]

I know for a fact that they did not tell you carbon fell into the cylinder and destroyed the engine...

That's interesting isn't it. How did you managed to get the "formal" response before me?

I think the thing you may not understand, is even if it was carbon, do you think they are just going to say "yeah sorry, when your engine was pinging and we didn't react fast enough, bits of carbon started to cause problems. Since then you've had more blow-by and more carbon which has made the situation worse".

I've posted pictures so people can make their own mind up. I've given my personal unmechanical theory based on the information I have. I still maintain it's carbon related (either the by-product of rings not sealing) or the cause.

Note: On a non-DI engine, if rings don't seal good from break in you'll use more oil, but that's not going to cause carbon and possible damage like in our DI engines.

[ArthurPE]

tell you what....I'm going to ask for a sanitized (no names/address, VIN, costs, etc.) copy of the W.O. when all is said and done...
if they oblige I will post it...
I'm sure they are anxious to get their side out...
they don't know exactly what caused it, but it wasn't deposits from the valves...as they told you, oil related is all they know until they do their thing...

are you saying Audi was negligent and would lie to cover it up?
you should be careful with statements like that...you need their cooperation
I don't subscribe to that BS...
we'll see how this shakes out in due time

I know for a fact that they did not tell you carbon fell into the cylinder and destroyed the engine...

That's interesting isn't it. How did you managed to get the "formal" response before me?

I think the thing you may not understand, is even if it was carbon, do you think they are just going to say "yeah sorry, when your engine was pinging and we didn't react fast enough, bits of carbon started to cause problems. Since then you've had more blow-by and more carbon which has made the situation worse".

I've posted pictures so people can make their own mind up. I've given my personal unmechanical theory based on the information I have. I still maintain it's carbon related (either the by-product of rings not sealing) or the cause.

Note: On a non-DI engine, if rings don't seal good from break in you'll use more oil, but that's not going to cause carbon and possible damage like in our DI engines.

[2manytoys]

Again, let me say that the dealer and Audi Australia have been very supportive (much more so than I've read in other countries, but again, I don't know the full story there, and you only read the bad stuff on the internet)

BUT given all the talk about Carbon related problems I don't think Audi are going to be proactive about confirming it either. Hell, after I was told Carbon caused the initial problem by the service manager (at another dealer) a week later I was told it was a fuel pressure pump that was changed and not carbon (I then had the carbon cleaned properly before I was told that, and that's when the difference was felt... actually, that's when I really started understanding the whole carbon debate in full).

[ArthurPE]

there is a TSB out for the fuel pump
that would coincide with the symptoms you had
timing (<beep> due to lean mixture, pre-ignition, detonation, etc.)
and for sure lack of power

Again, let me say that the dealer and Audi Australia have been very supportive (much more so than I've read in other countries, but again, I don't know the full story there, and you only read the bad stuff on the internet)

BUT given all the talk about Carbon related problems I don't think Audi are going to be proactive about confirming it either. Hell, after I was told Carbon caused the initial problem by the service manager (at another dealer) a week later I was told it was a fuel pressure pump that was changed and not carbon (I then had the carbon cleaned properly before I was told that, and that's when the difference was felt... actually, that's when I really started understanding the whole carbon debate in full).

[2manytoys]

In my case, while that may have actually been replaced, it didn't solve the problem (hence the mess going on at the moment).

I think it's harder for Audi here as there are not many RS4's in Australia. I don't know how many, but I know the Cab's are numbered!! I even had a plaque. "26 of 26"

[P_G]

actually Audi told mal 'oil quality/contamination'

No they didn't, they said wrong oil. But you knew that, I'm sure you were just trying to bait me by misquoting again.

Seriously, go get some friends, I know you get off on fighting with people on the forums, and you've made that your past time, but far out, it's boring as hell to read.

I have more pics and more information but I'm not posting them on this forum or this thread. It's a waste of time.

And please don't follow me on the other one or fill my project thread with crap.

Mal.

Mal, to me and perhaps others if there were an issue with oil quality it either means the oil is not the right type or a poor blend thus the 'wrong oil'? So although it is not the exact wording I interpret that as the same thing. It's not a debate on semantics.

You say you have more pics and information and it is your choice what you do with thyat, However I would ask if the new information you have actually gives you a definitive answer to the cause of your problems and do you have a positive resolution?

[2manytoys]

Yes, I have lot more pics and more information, but unfortunately this thread is full of arguing, misquoting and general rudeness. There are people on here that need a serious attitude adjustment.

I've said this before, it takes two to tango, but as an observation, any thread with Arthur in it (that disagree's) turns into a big mess (a debate that never ends and just goes around in circles)

[ollys]

tell you what....I'm going to ask for a sanitized (no names/address, VIN, costs, etc.) copy of the W.O. when all is said and done...
if they oblige I will post it...
I'm sure they are anxious to get their side out...
they don't know exactly what caused it, but it wasn't deposits from the valves...as they told you, oil related is all they know until they do their thing...

are you saying Audi was negligent and would lie to cover it up?
you should be careful with statements like that...you need their cooperation
I don't subscribe to that BS...
we'll see how this shakes out in due time

I know for a fact that they did not tell you carbon fell into the cylinder and destroyed the engine...

That's interesting isn't it. How did you managed to get the "formal" response before me?

I think the thing you may not understand, is even if it was carbon, do you think they are just going to say "yeah sorry, when your engine was pinging and we didn't react fast enough, bits of carbon started to cause problems. Since then you've had more blow-by and more carbon which has made the situation worse".

I've posted pictures so people can make their own mind up. I've given my personal unmechanical theory based on the information I have. I still maintain it's carbon related (either the by-product of rings not sealing) or the cause.

Note: On a non-DI engine, if rings don't seal good from break in you'll use more oil, but that's not going to cause carbon and possible damage like in our DI engines.

And I, personally, think you should be careful with statements like that Arthur - it could be construed as a threat, especially where it doesn't appear that anyone is accusing anyone else of lying above, and especially as there is no doubt you are privy to information about this issue that no-one else outside of Audi seems to be....

Oh - and in the real world -why isn't it beyond the realms of possiblity for an corporation in a similar position in which Audi finds itself with the 'Carbon issue' to lie about the truth of the issue? In fact, the cynics might say that it is more probable than not that said corporation would lie if the truth would cause it to suffer damage, be it financial, reputational or both......

[Sims]

tell you what....I'm going to ask for a sanitized (no names/address, VIN, costs, etc.) copy of the W.O. when all is said and done...
if they oblige I will post it...
I'm sure they are anxious to get their side out...
they don't know exactly what caused it, but it wasn't deposits from the valves...as they told you, oil related is all they know until they do their thing...

are you saying Audi was negligent and would lie to cover it up?
you should be careful with statements like that...you need their cooperation
I don't subscribe to that BS...
we'll see how this shakes out in due time

That's interesting isn't it. How did you managed to get the "formal" response before me?

I think the thing you may not understand, is even if it was carbon, do you think they are just going to say "yeah sorry, when your engine was pinging and we didn't react fast enough, bits of carbon started to cause problems. Since then you've had more blow-by and more carbon which has made the situation worse".

I've posted pictures so people can make their own mind up. I've given my personal unmechanical theory based on the information I have. I still maintain it's carbon related (either the by-product of rings not sealing) or the cause.

Note: On a non-DI engine, if rings don't seal good from break in you'll use more oil, but that's not going to cause carbon and possible damage like in our DI engines.

And I, personally, think you should be careful with statements like that Arthur - it could be construed as a threat, especially where it doesn't appear that anyone is accusing anyone else of lying above, and especially as there is no doubt you are privy to information about this issue that no-one else outside of Audi seems to be....

Oh - and in the real world -why isn't it beyond the realms of possiblity for an corporation in a similar position in which Audi finds itself with the 'Carbon issue' to lie about the truth of the issue? In fact, the cynics might say that it is more probable than not that said corporation would lie if the truth would cause it to suffer damage, be it financial, reputational or both......

Good points Ollys.

As I have said, I am not bothered about my car's engine for if there is an issue, I expect Audi will do the right thing.

And it is Audi you would expect to be doing the research on this, making inquiries rather than anyone else.

[PetrolDave]

As I have said, I am not bothered about my car's engine for if there is an issue, I expect Audi will do the right thing.

Out of interest how many miles has your RS4 done?

Mine's done just over 44,000miles in 4 years.

[SR71]

Whats ironic is that whilst chastising certain posters for claiming "they know better than Audi", the biggest culprit in this department is the guy who uttered the words in the first place.

He obstinately claims carbon is not an issue, nor does it affect performance etc etc. and has used up more bandwidth on boards across mutiple continents endeavouring to justify his contention than everybody else put together...but how would he know??!! Should he left himself some "wiggle" room?

Audi obviously need him.

Whatever the cause of Mal's issue, how does "wrong oil" explain the presence of all that carbon in there?

The question is rhetorical....

Next it'll be "wrong driving style" or what did they (Audi) tell Rob:

"The car pulls to the left by design just in case the driver has a heart-attack it'll put him safely into the hard shoulder"!

Should I believe Audi in that instance?

Please.

[ArthurPE]

well, that would be misconstrued...
it's not a threat, it's a statement of fact...
we are only getting one hyperbolic, inaccurate and biased side of the story
I'd (and I'm sure others) would like to hear Audi's, no?

he sure is accusing them of lying...

so now you are saying Audi would lie about this?
that would be risky strategy...
any lawyer worth his salt would have a study of his own done
and since the gist is:
carbon from valves destroyed this engine (and purportedly another)
and all engines have deposits
all engines will eventually be destroyed
this is 100's of millions of dollars at stake...hopw many DI's sold?

I do stuff like this for a living, I will continue to ask/dig/research

And I, personally, think you should be careful with statements like that Arthur - it could be construed as a threat, especially where it doesn't appear that anyone is accusing anyone else of lying above, and especially as there is no doubt you are privy to information about this issue that no-one else outside of Audi seems to be....

Oh - and in the real world -why isn't it beyond the realms of possiblity for an corporation in a similar position in which Audi finds itself with the 'Carbon issue' to lie about the truth of the issue? In fact, the cynics might say that it is more probable than not that said corporation would lie if the truth would cause it to suffer damage, be it financial, reputational or both......