Audi warranty denied?

Post by **doodlebug** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:10 pm

Just telling it how it could be seen!

Don't take your car to dealer for wash as they will use Brillo, wire wool, nitromors or some other unhelpful method!

The reality is that it is not in the brand's interest to slam the door on every claim where the vehicle has been modified. Furthermore where the customer has brand and dealer loyalty.

Post by **HYFR** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:21 pm

i know doodle ... just kiddin

Post by **doodlebug** » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:23 pm

I know, sarcasm better spoken...

Post by **adsgreen** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:56 am

The answer here is 'it depends'

Under eu block exemption rules you can replace any part of the car an retain warranty on the rest IF the part is shown to match or exceed oem fitments.
Generally this means if the part is approved (TUV or ISO for example) and can be fitte without damaging any other conponent (a simple bolt on replacement) then there is no effect on the warranty.

A classic example is that manufacturers can not even say that service items such as oil and filters must be oem. As long as they meet or exceed oem quality then there is no problem.

This is eu competition law and well tested.

Post by **bam_bam** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:07 pm

adsgreen wrote:The answer here is 'it depends'

Under eu block exemption rules you can replace any part of the car an retain warranty on the rest IF the part is shown to match or exceed oem fitments.
Generally this means if the part is approved (TUV or ISO for example) and can be fitte without damaging any other conponent (a simple bolt on replacement) then there is no effect on the warranty.

A classic example is that manufacturers can not even say that service items such as oil and filters must be oem. As long as they meet or exceed oem quality then there is no problem.

This is eu competition law and well tested.

Sorry Doodlebug, ^ this man is right. I've looked into this extensively (I'm not of a 'legal disposition' but I work in litigation), there are many precedents of this 'void warranty due aftermarket parts', yet it remains a minefield. However, the principle is: OEM standard or betterment and approved will not void warranty. The main reason is the point Mr. Green made, EU competition law. The aftermarket car component market had gotten rather large since the last time I looked, in fact a lot of aftermarket firms supply OEM parts installed at factory. So OP, you can install a Miltek (one of the few) on your car if it is approved by a regulatory body, and without invalidating a manufacturer warranty. If Audi did decide to invalidate a warranty claim due to a correct version road-going Milltek, they'd be reamed with a legal iron fist, Milltek could even get involved.
Note: defendant has to pay claimants costs. The cost of going after Audi in a case like this wouldn't be too expensive at all, it'd be in a county court unless you'd be claiming more than £10k (it may have been raised to £15k now, I haven't looked recently). County court submissions are very cheap and can be completed/paid on-line. The rule I employ here is; if someone with a money motive has told you something, check EVERYTHING they've said, if it doesn't check out - go after them. These are your rights and firms like Audi have bullied and scared consumers with impunity for too long, using the small claims court system is very easy and inexpensive, try it.

Post by **doodlebug** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Bam, as I said, it's about unapproved mods, so if OEM or equivalent is used fine. I'd like to see the individual brave enough to explain to a magistrate that his ECU map is comparable to the OEM.

Small claims is 5k, though due to increase. Above that you're into lawyers and their wigged superiors. I can tell you that isn't cheap!

I agree it is a minefield and the best approach is always going to be nicely, brand loyalty etc etc. I had a three month wrangle with VW and it was stressful at times, that's with counsel in the household. We got to engineers reports etc etc. VW UK including Chris Craft involved, in the end time and negotiation bore fruit.

Post by **bam_bam** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:22 pm

All mods are unapproved by Audi so it remains very grey. Sportec and MTM maps carry Audi approved warranties, I'm not sure those are TUV approved, the fact that their maps are contained on a piggyback is a technicality. The OEM ECU program is bypassed and the car runs to a rejigged Sportec/MTM code. With this in mind, what if a remap car ran within the safety parameters set by the OEM ECU program? If an aftermarket remap didn't break these manufacturer set operating safeties; is there grounds for an aftermarket remap to be blamed for a failure?

Post by **doodlebug** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:29 pm

Completely agree you'd have to delve deep into the detail in an ECU map case. Audi would immediately hold the upper hand as much would be their IP.

Bottom line, you'd not want to find yourself in that situation.

Clearly there will be different experiences in similar cases. Some will have been stiffed whilst others would have come to an arrangement.

I also agree that dealers and manufacturers will do as much as they can to deny blame in the hope the customer will pay up. I like you do not fall into that bracket, coming from an engineering background I'm happy to take someone on talking bollocks.

Post by **bam_bam** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:46 pm

doodlebug wrote:Completely agree you'd have to delve deep into the detail in an ECU map case. Audi would immediately hold the upper hand as much would be their IP.

Bottom line, you'd not want to find yourself in that situation.

Clearly there will be different experiences in similar cases. Some will have been stiffed whilst others would have come to an arrangement.

I also agree that dealers and manufacturers will do as much as they can to deny blame in the hope the customer will pay up. I like you do not fall into that bracket, coming from an engineering background I'm happy to take someone on talking bollocks.

So what do you think of the OP's case? I can't see why a Milltek road-going exhaust should cause alarm from Audi...

Post by **doodlebug** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:57 pm

Depends on their dealer, there's always a tosspot service advisor who's going to argue the toss.

So, if you know what you're getting into and you know that there could be questions down the line, then you are going in eyes open. Go do it. Also ask the direct question to the supplier.

If you're unsure and don't have the stomach for a potential argument down the line then best avoided.

This is the difficulty, it's difficult to give a black and white answer.

Post by **bam_bam** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:34 pm

Black and white equals grey. I don't see how a dealer has a say in all this, it's not their warranty, ultimately it's Audi footing the bill. To me that's just another layer of scare tactic. A Milltek on a B8 S4 is hardly a drastic mod. I say go do it but be well prepared when they try to give you static, as Mr. Bug said.

Post by **AdrianD** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:42 pm

My dealer fitted my Milltek... just sayin in case this helps

Post by **doodlebug** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:42 pm

The dealer is effectively the agent for the warranty, manufacturer mouthpiece so to speak. If they think Audi will pushback then it'll head toward their too difficult pile. In fairness I've had support from a VW dealer in the past on a bodywork issue and they've pushed back to VW. It works both ways!

Post by **doodlebug** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:43 pm

AdrianD wrote:My dealer fitted my Milltek... just sayin in case this helps

That helps I think!

Post by **bam_bam** » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:43 pm

doodlebug wrote: It works both ways!

Haha, you said both ways.

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