Advice: Caught doing 101mph M25 hidden camera.

[SuprSi]

Hey everyone,

I got caught a few months back by those sodding hidden cameras at junction 5 (grey ones on the far side of the gantry). Supposedly it reckons I was doing 101 but I'm skeptical, it's possible, but looking at the supplied pics I'm in the left of 4 empty lanes minding my own business and there's a van in lane 3 for some reason. I'm not keen on undertaking so I would have been under 100. Probably around 90 to be fair. There was no variable speed limit displayed but I think those cameras are on all the time.

Anyway, after a bit of advice really, I plan to admit to exceeding 70, although I'd like to question the speed if I can. The pictures they sent me are confusing, to me it doesn't look like it's possible to verify the speed from the pictures as they're taken at a different angle and there's no markings on the road. Don't they have to be able to prove the offence rather than relying completely on the radar reading?

I've got 3 points for speeding already so I'm guessing it will be difficult to convince them to go easy on me. I'm a wheelchair user though so I wouldn't have thought they will give me a ban, probably 6 points, which will take me up to 9. That takes me 1 slip up away from totting up

In the mean time I'm going to buy a road angel to help me keep my license.

Assuming there is no way to question the recorded speed, what is definitely not a good thing to say out of this lot:

[*]I'm very sorry your honor, it's a very high performance, luxury car and it's very smooth & quiet so I didn't realize how quick I was going.
[*]I'm very sorry, I was getting anxious about missing my time slot for the eurotunnel, my speed must have crept up while I was concentrating on the road.
[*]Although I put my hands up to the offence and know I shouldn't have been going that fast, I was driving safely and the car is very well maintained with excellent tyres and brakes. (key point is my unlawful actions didn't endanger andybody)

If anyone has a cool motoring solicitor friend or good recommendation that might be handy.

Thanks everyone.

[bam_bam]

To be clocked 101 you'd need to see 105+ on your dials. Seems weird to be doing that on an inside lane with a van on the outside. I'd contest, I'd request when the speed trigger element of the unit was last calibrated and I'd ask what speed the van was doing. What's to say there wasn't a admin error and it was the van bombing along at 101. In some cases, if there is any doubt, it'll be dropped into the too hard basket and you're off.
Post the pic for shitz n giggles.
Try a traffic lawyer that uses ATF insurance or check that your home and contents insurance has legal cover and use that.

[SuprSi]

Thanks for that Bam, some good thoughts.
I've got legal cover on my insurance, so would that cover a traffic lawyer?

Here's the pics. I don't even know what the first pic is, according to the header it should be the same image as the one directly below it but myself and the van aren't there.

It looks like we're going roughly the same speed to me. If anything I might be going a bit faster but the height and shadow of the van makes it a bit deceptive imo. Along with the different camera angle.
But as you can see, it doesn't look like it's possible to work out the speed from the two pics as they're from a different angle and no road markings. Do they not have to verify it with the pics any more?

And this is a good scan, the document is actually this rubbish!!!

[doodlebug]

Van could've been zapped as well.....

[SuprSi]

There was probably a lot of stuff getting done then because there were plenty of cars further ahead that I wasn't catching up!

I just feel completely demotivated by this, even if this is legit... our speed limits are a total joke.

Also most "safety cameras" are actually more of deterrent. They are visible to slow you down. These are hidden, purposefully trying to catch you out. I can even deal with that much, if they want to catch and fine you then that's kinda ok with me, but when it comes to either a ban or taking up half the points on my license for something that wasn't in any way dangerous, that just pisses me off!

[Eddie555]

IMO Si I think they use these imaginary lines in this pic to judge your speed hence why they've included it in your brief. And you're right speed limits set in the donkeys years ago are a joke.

[HYFR]

The day had come

I have been waiting for proof that they are actually doing people using gantry cams with the fooking cameras when there is no variable speed limit

That's it, 75mph from now on on M25....that if I get away with last weekend...

[SuprSi]

Eddie: That's what I thought, but if that was the case they'd need two pics with the lines on taken from the same angle so you can tell how far the car has gone in the time interval. Putting those lines on 1 pic is probably to make people think that's it, but in reality all it lets me do is see how big my car is against a scale they don't give!


HYFR: These aren't the normal gantry cams, they're actually bolted on the side of the gantry. They're only on 2 gantries (both ways, so 4 total) either side of junction 5 AFAIK.

http://www.sevenoakschronicle.co.uk/Rev ... story.html

[Outtlaw]

These cameras are also situated around the top of the M25 between J25 & J27 Enfield to the M11 and vice versa.

[Eddie555]

I hate to say this Si but this 2 pics are taken from the same camera. It's an optical illusion that it look different and look closer and they are 1second apart. The two lines have got something to do with it I think. The first line being where you was in pic 1 and 2 line is where you are in second pic. I dunno for sure but. Maybe do 2 photocopies and put pic 1 on top of pic2 on a bright out side window and you can see the difference.

[bam_bam]

Both of those images could be from the same camera just cropped and zoomed or they could judge that centerline for camera 1 to be starting point A and the time it takes for the car to break centerline on camera 2 is ending point B, thus giving them the speed. This would mean that the 2 cameras are set to very specific angles, what's to say all the windy weather we've had recently hasn't affected the setup of these cameras, when were they last checked and calibrated? The reference lines are weird though, by this rationale the van would've been pinged too. Amazing to think that the time to calculate speed is 0.35secs, though 2 cameras set at different focal distances would make this pretty valid.
Also, if these camera installations are new this will be the best time to contest, you have no idea how long the teething process is on getting the procedures right and this could be where doubt can be created, there may already be a precedent. It's worth noting this is a police report - an operator sends video/images to the police actual and they produce their findings, so it could still be a fat finger.
I'd contest because if I didn't, I'd regret it. Check the legal cover in your home and contents insurance, time to whip out the policy book, mate. Getting legal advice now might be worth it's weight in lost points.

[bam_bam]

I hate to dms at this Si but this 2 pics are taken from the same camera. It's an optical illusion that it look different and look closer and they are 1second apart. The two lines have got something to do with it I think. The first line being where you was in pic 1 and 2 line is where you are in second pic. I dunno for sure but. Maybe do 2 photocopies and put pic 1 on top of pic2 on a bright out side window and you can see the difference.

You might be looking at the time since last speed limit change. The photo intervals are 0.00 - 0.35 sec.

[bam_bam]

HADECS 3 - duel radar built by Aussies, the biggest driving nanny state in the world... c-nuts.

http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm

[Eddie555]

I hate to dms at this Si but this 2 pics are taken from the same camera. It's an optical illusion that it look different and look closer and they are 1second apart. The two lines have got something to do with it I think. The first line being where you was in pic 1 and 2 line is where you are in second pic. I dunno for sure but. Maybe do 2 photocopies and put pic 1 on top of pic2 on a bright out side window and you can see the difference.

You might be looking at the time since last speed limit change. The photo intervals are 0.00 - 0.35 sec.

Yea bam you're right. But the photos are the same though. I've been anal and measured the angles of the white lines of the roads and they're the same.

[SuprSi]

Good plan Bam, I'll try my luck. To me the pics just don't make any sense. I guess the worst that prove the reading and I apologize. They'll probably have to call Steven Fry/Dara O'brian who might be able explain the witchcraft behind working out these pics!

I hate to say this Si but this 2 pics are taken from the same camera. It's an optical illusion that it look different and look closer and they are 1second apart. The two lines have got something to do with it I think. The first line being where you was in pic 1 and 2 line is where you are in second pic. I dunno for sure but. Maybe do 2 photocopies and put pic 1 on top of pic2 on a bright out side window and you can see the difference.

Hmm, look at the angle of the edge of the road though, the whole image is rotated. I'll do what you suggested though, that's a good idea.

Edit: looks like you're right. That's disappointing. Would have been nice if their cameras had screwed up.