Thinking Lotus Elise/Exige - anyone got experience?

[rossi46]

I had an S1 Exige several years ago and really miss it. Really liked the 'occasion' of driving it and fitted the weekend/second car purpose very well. It had the 190 bhp enging and although this was enough, it never felt quick quick on normal roads. It really needed to either be on a track or some roads with a generous helping of bends to fully understand it.
FWIW, I was taken for a passenger ride in a Superlight R ( by a guy who was racing them in a Caterham series, if memory serves ). He could drive, no doubt, but the car was just a full-on experience ( popping/banging exhaust several cm's from your ear, no windscreen etc etc ). Not saying that one was better than the other, just that one was even more extreme.
R500 for me one day please

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The more exposed you are in any car the more intense it can all get.

I'm just waiting for lotus to get their act together and
A) get the exige v6 roadster sorted
B) decide to be build a 211 replacement based on the v6 exige
(Incidentally, the 211 was the most profitable car unit for unit lotus made iirc)

[TimDogg]

I just don't really understand having an RS4 for summer use and then wanting a car like an Elise with aircon. Electric windows. Airbags. Etc. When even a standard Elise is 200kg heavier than it needs to be.

Murph - valid point.

I have a plan, and it's not a particularly good one. The RS4 will become my winter car - I got caught out this winter without 4WD, Passats do not like the snow, no.

An Elise then will be a summer car - swap them over with the storage company in May and October - done. Whilst one is being driven the other is getting mods and a clean.

Or I could buy a Cayman S for the same money as Elise + RS4 but I'd be bored and it would be normal and it's what an estate agent would drive.

So I guess I'm looking for an S2 111R without the touring pack - does it really save 200 kgs, that seems steep?

[TimDogg]

Sorry Murph, I think I've misunderstood you and have re-read your post. Why do you say that even a standard Elise is 200kgs heavier than it should be?

[adsgreen]

No - Toyota Elise's are between 120-180 kgs more than a rover car.
Toyotas around 850-900kgs and rover between 700-750.
The Toyota engine is heavier than the rover engine+gearbox put together.once you start adding weight it's hard to stop... Heavier engine means heavier subframe.. Then mounting... Then chassis... The suspension... Etc.
Tbh it's hard to notice the difference unless you are really chucking it - the Toyota suspension does a good job.

Do you really need air con with a convertible? Just buy a baseball cap to stop sunburn

[TimDogg]

Valid point ads, so I guess that not having the Touring Pack is not a show stopper then? Off hunting again!

[Ian_C]

Virtually all have the Touring pack but as per previous posts I'd personally prefer one without for the same reason Ads mentions - an early one with ally window winders - although the guy who introduced me to SELOC does keep telling me that electric windows are actually no heavier than the manual set up!

[535dboy]

Neither of mine have had the touring pack - couldn't see the point !

[adsgreen]

Virtually all have the Touring pack but as per previous posts I'd personally prefer one without for the same reason Ads mentions - an early one with ally window winders - although the guy who introduced me to SELOC does keep telling me that electric windows are actually no heavier than the manual set up!

Technically true but if you weigh the door assembly as a unit they are much heavier with all the extra bits like soundproofing etc.

[Ian_C]

Apologies my super-long-sentence there was ambiguous - yes I meant electric windows as a stand alone option compared to an identical car with manual winders

(Touring pack must be 40kg with AC)

[TimDogg]

I'm still thinking about the Toyota being 200kgs heavier than the K-Series - just can't get that out of my head. I am assuming that the later K-series (post '05?) had a metal HG and so were less prone to failure? I just want a sturdy engine so I don't have to worry about it.

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The real jump was with the s2 in 2001.
As great as the s1 was, it was undeniably a parts bin raid.

With the s2 things moved on (but still raiding parts bins) and the things that didnt work well (well some of them!) were fixed. the suspension was bespoke, metal head gasket, better roof, easier access...

[TimDogg]

Thanks Ads.

[Ian_C]

I'm still thinking about the Toyota being 200kgs heavier than the K-Series - just can't get that out of my head. I am assuming that the later K-series (post '05?) had a metal HG and so were less prone to failure? I just want a sturdy engine so I don't have to worry about it.

Its not. A 2006 1.8 (134) Toyota Corolla engined is not 200 kg heavier than a 2006 1.8 (120) Rover k series - but and its a big BUT - spec for spec. However the later cars had far more options available which more and more cars had, the 190 bhp 'R' was heavier than the 134 bhp 'S' due to a six speed box and more standard equipment, and a redesigned dash in 2007 saw airbags etc made standard with an additional weight penalty. This is the point Ads is getting at - a 2007 '57' revised dash 190 bhp 'R' six speed with Touring Pack (which 90% of cars have maybe you reckon Ads??) upgrade stereo, AC, carpets etc etc is going to be a LOT heavier than an early 2006 k series with 118 bhp, cloth seats and no carpets!

Rover went bust Easter 2005, and with the k series being fitted unopened, there would definitely not have been any changes to the head gasket before the last Rover engined Elise left the production line in 2006 and Lotus moved to solely Toyota

Get yourself on SELOC, there is a mountain of knowledge including a 'wiki' section which James who introduced me to SELOC in the first place has a hand in I believe. Model history through the years

http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Elise_model_history

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As above - its not a straight increase in weight due to the engine alone.
The issue is weight is difficult to cut once you start adding it.
Iirc it's something like 50-70 kgs difference like for like including gearbox and drivetrain.
Issue is that this needs a stronger rear subframe - just pick up a rover one and Toyota one... Something like 20kgd extra there.
The rear chassis mounting I'd beefed up and so are the suspension mounting points...
At the front abs+servo add anothe 10ks or so then the front rad is thicker to deal with the extra heat.
Toyota cars have a front mounted oil cooler (supercharged and exiges I think have 2). So extra oil lines on either side filled with oil - another 10kg or so,
Lets put this into perspective ...
A 211 with no doors, roof, windscreen, interior, air con, carpets, radio with a tiny race battery and clams made out of cardboard (well nearly) is 15-30kgs lighter than a mk1 s1 elise.
I know cars have got heavier but the 211 is SVA so does not have to pass type approval so safety aspects are a bit more relaxed.

That being said - don't get to hung up on weight. At 850-900kgs it's still a lot lighter than anything else you'd look at.