CSL prices...

All things related to Audi and other manufacturers
User avatar
DaveP
Top Gear
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:29 pm
Location: North West England

CSL prices...

Post by DaveP » Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm

Holy cow !...

It's been a while since I looked, so just had a quick search on Autotrader...sheesh....38k for one with under 10k miles !!

That's scary depreciation ! :shock:
DaveP...
Audi Allroad - Daily slogger
S1 Exige - Track beast

DavidT
Cruising
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:46 pm
Location: Cheshire

RE: CSL prices...

Post by DavidT » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:47 am

I remember the ride in Tim's car at Le-Mans and I want !!!

User avatar
FrankC
3rd Gear
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:43 am
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by FrankC » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:06 am

Limited numbers....422 in the UK....whats the story with this car then?
Cheers fc

gord
3rd Gear
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:08 pm
Location: Lancashire

Post by gord » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:47 am

There's one with 1600 miles on it at a dealer for £41k. Got to be amazing value now?

lengster1
Cruising
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:00 pm

Post by lengster1 » Sun Feb 27, 2005 11:48 am

I think the extra 20k for small improvements in performance is a bit steep,its got a fair few downsides such as non adjustable seats and a loss of quite a few creature comforts to gain very little in other areas,its really a track car for the road imho how often you would be able to exploit the minor advantages during normal road use and keep your licence?im not sure.i have driven one and liked it but as a daily driver id rather have a well specced normal m3,the m3s in general have been dropping like a stone i should know i nearly bought one,the csl will be no different bmw struggled to shift all of em in the first place,my local dealer took 6k off one to do a deal and move it on!

User avatar
TimJMS
4th Gear
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:10 pm
Contact:

Post by TimJMS » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:58 pm

Hi chaps, someone call? :)

The depreciation is a bitch aint it? Did help me to get 8 grand knocked off the price of a brand new one though. Glad I was never on a waiting list for this.

There were a good few cancelled orders at the time, and BMW made the cardinal error of flooding the market with all 422 cars at once (all CSL's were built between Oct and Dec 2003)

Many orders were placed by people who saw the "halo" effect, without really understanding its true nature.Once they found out there were no trinkets and toys, and that compared to the M3 it was more hardcore and uncompromising they fled in droves. Optimistic list price didnt help either!

I absolutely love it, and track it regularly. A great road car however it is not. It annoys many CSL owners to say that, but they are the ones who never owned an RS4. Huge rear legroom though surprisingly.

Lengster - the seats have height and lumbar adjustability, and the performance advantages are only really apparent on track, where they are crushing. 7:50 around the Nordschliefe is half a minute quicker than a standard M3, beats a GT3 and matches a GT3 RS.

At £39k its a performance bargain. Just make sure it has the aircon and proper CSL wheels. Preferably two sets.

scillyisles
3rd Gear
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:31 pm
Location: uk

Post by scillyisles » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:48 pm

All TimJMS points are valid.
I found the standard CSL seats in mine to be awful (for my body shape) so I changed them to custom Recaro Style seats trimmed in the same CSL fabric as the rear seats - this makes a big difference to the everyday practicality of the car as the standar CSL seats don't have much in the way of cushioning or shock asbsorber mounts. This coupled with the hard ride that the Pilot Cups give makes it very jiggly on UK roads.
In contrast my custom Recaros have inbuilt shock asbsorbers built into the seats and I run the car on Pirelli Neros rather than the Pilot Cups as I use it daily.
At £38K, a barely used CSL represents a performance bargain of a lifetime.
Audi RS2 - the original

RS4_STEVO
1st Gear
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:04 pm

Post by RS4_STEVO » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:05 pm

TimJMS wrote:Hi chaps, someone call? :)

The depreciation is a bitch aint it? Did help me to get 8 grand knocked off the price of a brand new one though. Glad I was never on a waiting list for this.

There were a good few cancelled orders at the time, and BMW made the cardinal error of flooding the market with all 422 cars at once (all CSL's were built between Oct and Dec 2003)

Many orders were placed by people who saw the "halo" effect, without really understanding its true nature.Once they found out there were no trinkets and toys, and that compared to the M3 it was more hardcore and uncompromising they fled in droves. Optimistic list price didnt help either!

I absolutely love it, and track it regularly. A great road car however it is not. It annoys many CSL owners to say that, but they are the ones who never owned an RS4. Huge rear legroom though surprisingly.

Lengster - the seats have height and lumbar adjustability, and the performance advantages are only really apparent on track, where they are crushing. 7:50 around the Nordschliefe is half a minute quicker than a standard M3, beats a GT3 and matches a GT3 RS.

At £39k its a performance bargain. Just make sure it has the aircon and proper CSL wheels. Preferably two sets.

I was looking over some of my old Evo mags and couldn't understand why the CSL is so slower (sprint times) than the GT3 (not RS) but could be still as quick on track!

I agree that it might stick with the GT3 but certainly not the ultimate GT3 RS on track!!!

Here are some times listed below against a standard GT3 (they are close!)


BMW M3 CSL
Price: £58,455

0-30mph: 2.3secs
0-40mph: 3.3secs
0-50mph: 4.3secs
0-60mph: 5.3secs
0-70mph: 6.8secs
0-80mph: 8.2secs
0-90mph: 9.9secs
0-100mph: 12.0secs
0-110mph: 14.7secs
0-120mph: 17.6secs
0-130mph: 20.8secs
0-140mph: 25.9secs
0-150mph: n/a

Porsche 911 GT3
Price: £72,750

0-30mph: 1.9secs
0-40mph: 2.5secs
0-50mph: 3.4secs
0-60mph: 4.3secs
0-70mph: 5.3secs
0-80mph: 6.3secs
0-90mph: 7.8secs
0-100mph: 9.2secs
0-110mph: 10.9secs
0-120mph: 13.1secs
0-130mph: 15.3secs
0-140mph: 18.1secs
0-150mph: 22.1

Subaru Impreza Sti Type RA Spec C limited
Price: £27,995

0-30mph: 1.5secs
0-40mph: 2.5secs
0-50mph: 3.2secs
0-60mph: 4.3secs
0-70mph: 5.7secs
0-80mph: 7.4secs
0-90mph: 9.0secs
0-100mph: 11.1secs
0-110mph: 13.6secs
0-120mph: 16.5secs
0-130mph: 20.5secs
0-140mph: 25.6secs
0-150mph: n/a

Track: Bedford Autodrome West circuit

Porsche 911 GT3: 79.40secs
BMW M3 CSL: 79.95secs
Subaru Impreza Sti Spec C: 80.30secs

RS4_STEVO
1st Gear
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:04 pm

Post by RS4_STEVO » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:31 pm

OK, here it goes again, the most complete and up-to-date list of the lap times ever achieved by race, tuned and production cars at the famous Nurburgring Nordschleife:

6:59 --- Ferrari 312T, Niki Lauda, German GP, training (1975)
7:06 --- Ferrari 312T, Clay Regazzoni, German GP, race (1975)
*1.2m longer circuit than standard Nordschleife

6:11 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, training (1983)
6:26 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Stefan Bellof, race (1983)
6:41 --- Porsche 956, Group C, Derek Bell
7:50 --- BMW X5 Le Mans V12, Hans Stuck (2001)
*0.232 km longer than current, standard Nordschleife

7:01 --- Manthey Porsche GT3 race car, 493 hp (2004), >>> http://www.autobild.de/tuning/testb...artikel_seite=4
7:06 --- BMW M3 GTR, 24hrs, test session, Jörg Müller (2003)
7:18 --- Donkervoort D8 RS (2004 whitnessed by sport magzine)
7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003), >>> http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/ne...liefe/index.php
7:20* -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated
7:25 --- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004
7:32.4 - Porsche Carrera GT, definitive time by Horst Von Saurma
7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001) >>> http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html
7:36 --- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:40* - Porsche Carrera GT, *estimated time on cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/2003)
7:40 --- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004
7:41 --- Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp (2004) >>> http://www.autobild.de/tuning/testb...artikel_seite=4
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- TechArt GT Street (2001)
7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Rohrl, MOTOR Magazine
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (2000)
7:45*--- McLaren F1, estimated lap time form a video available at www.pistonheads.tv
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46*--- Jaguar XJ220, estimated by EVO magzine, >>> http://www.jwhubbers.nl/ring/docs/evo-0007-7.jpg
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7.49 --- Porsche GT3, 392hp (2004), AutoBild >>> http://www.autobild.de/tuning/testb...artikel_seite=4
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (1993)
7:50 --- Lamborghini Murcielago (06/2002)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:52 --- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (06/2004)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:02 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Sport PASM setting) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:03 --- Porsche 996 GT3 (1999)
8:04 --- Lamborghini Diablo GT (07/2000)
8:05 --- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1 (12/2002)
8:05 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Normal PASM setting)(Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:06 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:06 --- Caterham 7 Superlight R, Robert Nearn
8:07 --- Ferrari 550 Maranello (06/1998)
8:09 --- Honda NSX-R 3.2 (08/2002)
8:09 --- Ferrari 360 Modena (10/1999)
8:09 --- Lamborghini Diablo SV (no ABS?)
8:10 --- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411PS, UK-Spec, no ABS (10/1997)
8:10 --- Donkervoort D8 180R
8:12 --- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (04/2002)
8:12 --- Porsche 993 Turbo
8:13 --- Lotus Esprit Sport 350, 354 PS (05/1999)
8:13 --- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 PS (10/2004)
8:15 --- Ruf 911 CTR 2, 520 PS
8:15*-- Holden GTS (2000), *estimated
8:15 --- Porsche 911 Carrera 2 (997) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)
8:16 --- AC-Schnitzer E36 M3 CLS II, 350 PS (11/1997)
8:16 --- Aston Martin DB9, 457hp (sport auto 11/2004)
8:17 --- Aston Martin Vanquish (2003)
8:17 --- Porsche 996 C2
8:18 --- BMW Z8, 400 PS (08/2000)
8:18 --- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 Commemorative Edition, 344 PS (09/2003)
8:18 --- Ferrari F355 (06/1997)
8:20 --- Audi RS6 (2002)
8:22 --- BMW E46 M3 (12/2000)
8:22 --- BMW M Coupe, 321 PS (10/1998)
8:22 --- Mercedes-Benz C55 (07/2004)
8:23 --- Aston Martin DB7 GT (2003)
8:23 --- Porsche 996 Carrera 4
8:24 --- Subaru Impreza WRX STi (2004)
8:25 --- Audi RS4 375 HP
8:25 --- Callaway C12
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VI (11/1999)
8:25 --- Mitsubishi Carisma GT Evo VII (11/2002)
8:26 --- Mercedes Benz SLK 32 AMG (05/2001)
8:26 --- Nissan 350Z (2003)
8:28 --- BMW M5, 400 PS(also confirmed by Motor Commodore magazine, 2000)
8:28 --- Nissan Skyline GTR, 277 PS
8:28 --- Porsche 993 Carrera 2
8:29 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 55 AMG (05/2000)
8:29 --- Audi S4 4.2 Avant (11/2003)
8:30 --- Maserati Coupé Cambiocorsa (10/2002)
8:31 --- Ferrari F355 GTS, 380 PS
8:32 --- BMW M Roadster, 321 PS (09/1997)
8:32 --- BMW Z4 3.0 SMG (05/2003)
8:32 --- Porsche Boxster S
8:32 --- Volkswagen Golf R32
8:34 --- Acura NSX, 276 PS
8:34 --- BMW Z3 Coupé 3.0i, 231 PS (04/2001)
8:35 --- BMW M3 Coupe, 321 PS
8:35 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz C V8 Sportcoupé (02/2002)
8:36 --- BMW E36 M3 EVO, 321 PS
8:36 --- Alpina-BMW B3 3.3 Coupé (07/1999)
8:37 --- Maserati 3200GT (2002)
8:37 --- Mercedes Benz C32 AMG (09/2001)
8:37 --- Nissan Skyline GTR V-Spec, 350 PS
8:37 --- Subaru Impreza GT Turbo
8:37 --- Honda NSX 3.0 (07/1991)
8:38 --- Honda NSX 3.2 (08/1997)
8:38 --- Mercedes Benz SL500 (12/2001)
8:38 --- Porsche 996 Carrera, 296 PS
8:38 --- Brabus-Mercedes Benz CLK 5.8 (12/1998)
8:39 --- Honda S2000 (01/2000)
8:39 --- Morgan Aero 8 (04/2003)
8:40 --- Holden GTS, on an in and out lap (2000)
8:40 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5 Targa Automatic (07/1997)
8:41 --- Aston Martin DB7 (1999)
8:41 --- Audi S3, 210 PS (06/1999)
8:42 --- Audi S4, 265 PS (08/1998)
8:42 --- Lotus Exige (11/2000)
8:43 --- Honda Integra Type R (12/2000)
8:44 --- Chevrolet Corvette C5
8:45 --- Chevrolet Corvette, 339 PS, automatic
8:46 --- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS
8:47 --- Honda Civic Type-R, 200 PS (11/2001)
8:49 --- Jaguar XKR Coupe (07/1998)
8:49 --- Renault Clio Sport V6
8:49 --- Audi TT 1.8T quattro Coupé, 225 PS (11/1998)
8:50* -- Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (2000)
8:51 --- Mercedes Benz C43 AMG (02/1998)
8:52 --- Mercedes Benz CLK 430
8:55 --- Mini Cooper S Works, 200hp (sport auto 10/2004)
8:58 --- Lotus Esprit Turbo SE (07/1991)
9:09 --- Volkswagen Golf V6 4Motion

User avatar
simple1
Cruising
Posts: 3721
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:32 am
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Post by simple1 » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:34 pm

Ha... somebody else who keeps all their old evo mags.................. :assflash:

RS4_STEVO
1st Gear
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:04 pm

Post by RS4_STEVO » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:37 pm

lol!

RS4_STEVO
1st Gear
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:04 pm

Post by RS4_STEVO » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:41 pm

Simps! That CSL is pretty quick round the tracks! look at our 996TT, not far off the pace too! Could be well ahead with suspension mods! but I definately aint doin that to my car, just stick with plenty power!!!

lol!!

User avatar
simple1
Cruising
Posts: 3721
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:32 am
Location: Somerset
Contact:

Post by simple1 » Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:47 pm

Am plenty happy with extra GG's, and the exhaust this week will add a few more :bigwave: And it will get rid of the frigging rattling from the heat shields which is driving me mad :biggrin2:

User avatar
TimJMS
4th Gear
Posts: 721
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:10 pm
Contact:

Post by TimJMS » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:08 pm

Quick no? Also when set up with KW fully adjustable suspension and 3 degrees of neg camber on the fronts, you can run the same Cups on the front as the rear. No need for the brake mods at all then ;)

DavidT
Cruising
Posts: 6096
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:46 pm
Location: Cheshire

Post by DavidT » Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:41 pm

The NS list makes very interesting reading.

Post Reply

Return to “General Car Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests