Compulsory Telematics?

[chris_m]

So I read this article earlier and wouldn't mind hearing some views on this? Me for one am strongly against it mainly because of the invasion of privacy. Do I want someone to know exactly where I go and when I go at any given moment of the day? No thank you. There is also the fact I drive an RS4 to take into account. Discuss...

http://www.postonline.co.uk/post/news/2 ... s-mds-boss

[chris_m]

For some reason the link isn't leading to the article i read. It basically says that these boxes could be compulsory within 5 years.
If you google compulsory telematics, the article is by postonline.co.uk

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Ha.
Speaking as somebody involved with this its a fanciful pipe dream.
Maybe at some time but not within 5 years.
Most insurance companies simply couldn't deal with the data or want the risk of the data getting out.
Don't panic just yet

[chris_m]

I can't believe how many people are willing to give up their freedom in the first place. The mere fact that this seems to be taking off at all is concerning enough. I'd cry... In what way are you involved if you don't mind me asking?

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Manufacturing the units and offering insurance (early days on that one - still trying to get over how 'quaint' some of the processes and systems are in this industry)

[bam_bam]

Dailymail scaremongering, again.

[chris_m]

Manufacturing the units and offering insurance (early days on that one - still trying to get over how 'quaint' some of the processes and systems are in this industry)

Do you have one in your motor or would you have one? I'm not trying to quiz you on this mate I just wouldn't mind your opinion on them if you have experience.

[chris_m]

Dailymail scaremongering, again.

From an insurance point of view or our big brother state, I would think it may be probable. Scaremongering just a little maybe but probable, again...

[MikeFish]

This article is a year old so that makes it less than 4 years until it is compulsory. Also the article was based on quotes from a Chief Executive of an insurance firm that is in the Telematics market. Obviously trying to justify their decision to enter this market and make it sound like they are leaders of innovation!

I can't believe how many people are willing to give up their freedom in the first place.

In what way are people giving up their freedom? You will still be allowed to drive anywhere you want and in any way you want. The only thing that changes is that if you drive in an 'unsafe' manner then you will more than likely pay more for insurance. Drive sensibly and you may pay less. Simples. The 'faster' you drive, the more likely it is you will crash, or so the thoery goes.

My issue is that I drive fast but have not had any accidents because of this. I reversed into a very low wall once but that was whilst going very slow. It will probably also mean that some of these bad drivers that drive very slow but change lanes / pull out without looking proplerly will be deemd as low risk.

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Manufacturing the units and offering insurance (early days on that one - still trying to get over how 'quaint' some of the processes and systems are in this industry)

Do you have one in your motor or would you have one? I'm not trying to quiz you on this mate I just wouldn't mind your opinion on them if you have experience.

Only for r&d work on the units.
If somebody did nick the rs4 and look for trackers they may get a bit of a shock! Think I have at the moment three maybe four currently active?

It's a tricky one...
From a practical point of view no insurer has the capacity to monitor all their drivers 24x7 so most define a window to judge how the user drives. So for example if this window is the first 30 days then you could have it drive like miss daisy and then get a discount without worrying. Others simply use a calculation to generate a simple number as a rating.

For under 21 and even under 25's I can honestly say its almost essential. I have four boys and they damn well (a while yet mind) are going to have big brother (or in this case 'big daddy') looking over their shoulder.
I remember when I was a new driver even though I'd been karting for 7 years or so and could technically operate a car safely by the time I was 12 I look back and think 'how did I ever make to now'. I wasn't a yob behind the wheel just fuelled by teenage immortality and no road craft experience leading to some stupid stupid decisions that quite frankly I was lucky to get away with without something quite serious happening.

For others I think it's a balancing act. If you have never been involved in an accident or banned then I see no reason why you should need telematics or an insurance company require it. Sure, if you elect to have it in order to save money then go for it. However, if you have shown yourself to be a risk then I think it is justified. It has the added benefit of at least trying to convince anti social drivers to change just a little bit then I think it's a good thing.

Some models of telematics simply measure speed, date time and acceleration. No need to measure actual location unless there are other factors (such as confirming the car is kept where it should be). One of ours we're testing goes the full hog and integrates with the can-bus and logs *everything* (I've also er 'tested' it on track for personal reasons ). This data can show how aggressive things are to throttle position, throttle pedal acceleration, brake pedal and some cars steering wheel angle.
It's tricky as an rs4 for example can accelerate far faster than say a 1.1 nova with a fraction of the pedal input and be far safer than a 'yoof' mashing the pedals.

I see telematics becoming more about pay as you go insurance. Think amazon ec2 vs traditional hosting.

To me a more accurate way of evaluating a driver would be to monitor the distance they keep from e car in front...

[chris_m]

This article is a year old so that makes it less than 4 years until it is compulsory. Also the article was based on quotes from a Chief Executive of an insurance firm that is in the Telematics market. Obviously trying to justify their decision to enter this market and make it sound like they are leaders of innovation!

I can't believe how many people are willing to give up their freedom in the first place.

In what way are people giving up their freedom? You will still be allowed to drive anywhere you want and in any way you want. The only thing that changes is that if you drive in an 'unsafe' manner then you will more than likely pay more for insurance. Drive sensibly and you may pay less. Simples. The 'faster' you drive, the more likely it is you will crash, or so the thoery goes.

My issue is that I drive fast but have not had any accidents because of this. I reversed into a very low wall once but that was whilst going very slow. It will probably also mean that some of these bad drivers that drive very slow but change lanes / pull out without looking proplerly will be deemd as low risk.

Hi Mike.

Okay, the article Mike was more for reference more than anything else as the idea was for general opinions about this technology and how it would be welcomed.

Well freedom I guess was a bit of a strong word but even still if we were to dissect, in definition the power or right to 'act' as one wants without 'hindrance' or restraint suggests that we would be lacking freedom. Now some may think that this is not a bad thing but I'm sure we all have something in common here and that's our motors. I for one didn't buy an RS4 to drive it like my mother would and at the same time similarly In the 10 year I have had my license, I've not had any points, fines or accidents which I guess makes me a good responsible motorist even if yes, I drive fast at times. I don't like the idea of in a sense being spied on either. For someone to have the power to know exactly where I am when I am wouldn't feel free but guess were all different.

Thanks for your opinions.

[chris_m]

Manufacturing the units and offering insurance (early days on that one - still trying to get over how 'quaint' some of the processes and systems are in this industry)

Do you have one in your motor or would you have one? I'm not trying to quiz you on this mate I just wouldn't mind your opinion on them if you have experience.

Only for r&d work on the units.
If somebody did nick the rs4 and look for trackers they may get a bit of a shock! Think I have at the moment three maybe four currently active?

It's a tricky one...
From a practical point of view no insurer has the capacity to monitor all their drivers 24x7 so most define a window to judge how the user drives. So for example if this window is the first 30 days then you could have it drive like miss daisy and then get a discount without worrying. Others simply use a calculation to generate a simple number as a rating.

For under 21 and even under 25's I can honestly say its almost essential. I have four boys and they damn well (a while yet mind) are going to have big brother (or in this case 'big daddy') looking over their shoulder.
I remember when I was a new driver even though I'd been karting for 7 years or so and could technically operate a car safely by the time I was 12 I look back and think 'how did I ever make to now'. I wasn't a yob behind the wheel just fuelled by teenage immortality and no road craft experience leading to some stupid stupid decisions that quite frankly I was lucky to get away with without something quite serious happening.

For others I think it's a balancing act. If you have never been involved in an accident or banned then I see no reason why you should need telematics or an insurance company require it. Sure, if you elect to have it in order to save money then go for it. However, if you have shown yourself to be a risk then I think it is justified. It has the added benefit of at least trying to convince anti social drivers to change just a little bit then I think it's a good thing.

Some models of telematics simply measure speed, date time and acceleration. No need to measure actual location unless there are other factors (such as confirming the car is kept where it should be). One of ours we're testing goes the full hog and integrates with the can-bus and logs *everything* (I've also er 'tested' it on track for personal reasons ). This data can show how aggressive things are to throttle position, throttle pedal acceleration, brake pedal and some cars steering wheel angle.
It's tricky as an rs4 for example can accelerate far faster than say a 1.1 nova with a fraction of the pedal input and be far safer than a 'yoof' mashing the pedals.

I see telematics becoming more about pay as you go insurance. Think amazon ec2 vs traditional hosting.

To me a more accurate way of evaluating a driver would be to monitor the distance they keep from e car in front...

I gather the technology then is some way from being perfected. Like you say, what is accelerating too quickly or braking too sharply when comparing something like an RS to a Nova. It's obvious then from the examples that this could be of great benefit to some and less negatives. For me and my needs, the negatives tip the scales. I would like think I drive fast responsibly and calculated which is why I have a clean sheet.

It is totally understandable for taking the 'big daddy' approach and maybe share similar experiences as a teen myself but am kind of glad to be able to look back and see how irresponsible I may have been, it's all part of living and learning. Unscathed, yes and granted some have came off worse. It's a tricky one and guess we all have our own conflicted opinions. I have children, my oldest 7 so I have a decade to go yet before I have to start worrying...

Thanks mate.

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The technology is perfect from a hardware point of view
Some of the prototypes for the next gen stuff are really really cool

Just as with any new tech, the volume of data produced is considerable and it makes making meaningful decisions tricky.

As for decided what is 'too fast' - that's the tricky part. As we all know it perfectly possible to drive within the limit and not be aggressive with the controls and still be a fecking liability on the road.

The other aspect is data logging - some system keep a rolling log of data (just the last ten minutes) and then save it should an airbag be deployed.